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Thread: Ask Small Questions that Don't Deserve a Thread

  1. #1121
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    Quote Originally Posted by Proletaria View Post
    Fixt.

    But, on a more serious note to that effect: I never used the 4p (i had superior ilvl gear before i got 4 tokens, *shrug*) and didn't see the trade-off to be a good one. If you're lookin at ilvl245 stuff the crafted chest will give you better stats, not to mention any toGc loot is generally superior to the t9.

    Much like the present tier of set gear, the bonus is neat, but it hardly out-weighs stat losses that would cause you to take a hit in stam, armor, free sockets *usually means more stam,* etc.
    Most people aren't looking at doing ToGC, hence my comments. In comparison to pieces you can get out of ToC normal, there's no reason to avoid getting the t9 which is far less luck-based, extremely easy, and preps you for getting into places with real gear upgrades for the current content: ICC.

  2. #1122
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    Just one question, how the hell do you guys (in a non gender way) get the zoomout ? :P

  3. #1123
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    Zoom out farther macro

    /script SetCVar("cameraDistanceMax", 50)

  4. #1124
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    Fury Guide

    Thanks for all the hard work fixing up the site this weekend after the problems on Thursday/Friday!

    Unfortunately, I'm unable to find the Fury Guide by Thegreatme now.

    Where did it go???
    /cast Shield Slam
    /use Hand Grenade

  5. #1125
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    What are the best professions for a Druid tank?

  6. #1126
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    Best professions for a druid tank, could be LW/JC maybe, correct me if I'm wrong.

    Another question; With the new forum upgrades, will there be an Image resizer mod in place soon? Bit annoying to read on Show your interface thread at the moment!

  7. #1127
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    Now that I'm tooling around with a DK alt, I keep hearing about 8 second rune refreshes.

    Can anyone explain that? Is it a bug, rumor, exploit, feature?

  8. #1128
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    When calculating a procs effectiveness what is the better formula ? For example The Ashen Verdict ring is 2400 armor /10sec with a 45sec internal cool down. Would the proper way be to divide 2400 over 45seconds or over 35 seconds ? I see people doing it different ways and just wondering what is the acceptable right way.

  9. #1129
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zoso View Post
    When calculating a procs effectiveness what is the better formula ? For example The Ashen Verdict ring is 2400 armor /10sec with a 45sec internal cool down. Would the proper way be to divide 2400 over 45seconds or over 35 seconds ? I see people doing it different ways and just wondering what is the acceptable right way.
    When estimating the value of the proc, you follow this equation.

    Average Benefit of Proc = ( Value of Proc * Duration of Proc ) / ( Internal Cooldown + Average Time To Proc )

    Average Time To Proc = 1 / ( Chance to Proc / ( Executing Time of Procing Effect / Number of Eligible Procing Events )

    In this particular case...

    Executing Time of Procing Effect = Swing timer of mobs you're tanking.
    Number of Eligible Procing Events = Number of mobs you are tanking, any one of them hitting can cause it.
    Chance to Proc = I'm uncertain of for this ring, but I think its actually higher than the 10% some of the others (reason being is the mechanic to proc it is actually reduced by better gear, you have to be hit for a proc to occur so if you are missed it doesn't proc, don't quote me on that though since I haven't tested the tanking ring myself).

    Lets say for simplicity sake it's 25% chance to proc and your tanking one mob with a 2 second swing timer. That would make...

    Average Time To Proc = 1 / ( 0.25 / ( 2 / 1) ) = 8 seconds to proc (on average)
    This makes very good sense, if you have a 25% chance to proc on a hit and the mob swings every 2 seconds, you'd expect a proc about every 4 swings or 8 seconds.
    Then you just plug that into the other equation for measuring the benefit of the proc.
    Average Benefit of Proc = ( 2400 * 10 ) / ( 45 + 8 ) = 453 armor (on average)

    Keep in mind in this case I don't know the actual chance to proc on this particular item.
    Last edited by Quinafoi; 02-12-2010 at 03:31 PM. Reason: corrected typo in math
    "In anything, if you want to go from just a beginner to a pro, you need a montage." /w TankSpot WTB Montage for Raiders.

  10. #1130
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    Interesting. That clears up a lot actually. I guess my next question would be how would you calculate on use effects ? Just for example like the 4pc T10 prot warrior bonus

  11. #1131
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    Man you ask some tough questions.

    On use is a bit trickier to nail down because you have to take into context how and when you would use it. The maximum effect is obviously to use it on every cooldown, however in practice you may make conscience choice to use it at certain times based on encounter mechanics. A 20% increase in effective health temporarily is enough to knock off a decent chunk of a boss attack, like something you'd pop for Sartharion's breath when buffed by the other drakes, bad example since it's 3 tiers prior but you get the point.

    If you really want to know how complex that comes out to... I'd approximate it like this.

    Approximate Effect = Buffed Health * Approximate Last Stand * Approximate Shield Wall * Effect on Use



    For the purposes of this calculation I'm excluding defensive stance because we can assume that effect is always active.
    • Buffed Health = 55,000 (give or take when you have 4T10)
    • Approximate Last Stand = 1 + ( Last Stand Effect * Last Stand Uptime )
      • Last Stand Effect = 30% Health = 0.3
      • Last Stand Uptime = Duration / Cooldown = 20 / ( 180 - ( 60 * Glyph of Last Stand ) )
        • Glyph of Last Stand = 1 if Present, 0 if Not
    • Approximate Shield Wall = 1 + ( Shield Wall Effect * Shield Wall Uptime )
      • Shield Wall Effect = -60%, -40% if Glyphed, incoming damage = 1 / (1 - ( 0.6 - ( 0.2 * Glyph of Shield Wall ) ) )
        • Glyph of Shield Wall = 1 if Present, 0 if Not
      • Shield Wall Uptime = Duration / Cooldown = 12 / ( 300 - ( 120 * Glyph of Shield Wall ) )
        • Glyph of Shield Wall = 1 if Present, 0 if Not
    • Effect on Use = 20% Total Health Aborbed = 0.2
    So if
    Glyph of Last Stand = 1
    Glyph of Shield Wall = 0

    Approximate Effect = 55,000 * ( 1 + ( 0.3 * ( 20 / ( 180 - ( 60 * 1 ) ) ) ) * ( 1 + ( 1 / (1 - ( 0.6 - ( 0.2 * 0 ) ) ) * 12 / ( 300 - ( 120 * 0 ) ) ) ) * 0.2
    Simplify Glyphs = 55,000 * ( 1 + ( 0.3 * ( 20 / 120 ) ) ) * ( 1 + ( 1 / ( 1 - 0.6 ) ) * ( 12 / 300 ) ) * 0.2
    Calculate Effects of Parts = 55,000 * 1.05 * 1.1 * 0.2
    Approximate Effect = 12,705 Damage Absorbed

    Bloodrage can be used every minute, so at a maximum divide the health by 60 to get arround 210 health effective all the time.

    This calculation is kinda measuring a maximum effect of the set bonus (burning cooldowns everytime they are up). Not a practical usage. Anything that happens on use is actually a bit harder to calculate because you have to take into account the person can and likely will choose to not use it as soon as possible and instead save it for a particular purpose. For example as a Moonkin I hate on use trinkets for haste or for crit because my dps cycle is about 36 seconds long and depending on the phase of the cycle I don't benefit at all from more crit or more haste, so in my calculation of a trinket's value I'd have to consider my cycle and account for how much time on average would I be forced to wait before I can use it (though for the most part these trinkets are relatively worthless when compared to others for my spec).
    Last edited by Quinafoi; 02-15-2010 at 10:05 AM.
    "In anything, if you want to go from just a beginner to a pro, you need a montage." /w TankSpot WTB Montage for Raiders.

  12. #1132
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    On Use mechanics...

    You measure by either the assumption that you will use cooldowns everytime they are up (maximize effect). This rule makes sense for a lot of DPS classes. Doesn't make sense for a tank however because you generally conserve cooldowns for certain points in an encounter. If you understand fully what point of your cycle you would use the ability, you can approximate it better similar to how an On Proc is calculated, cooldown plus time to proc except in this case it would be cooldown plus time to reach the point in your cycle where you would choose to use it again.

    On Proc mechanics...

    Since it's uncontrollable and random for the most part, you calculate the time the effect will be active based on the internal cooldown and the average time it would take to cause it to proc. The actual effect has an upper bound limit that trends towards the internal cooldown while the lower bound (how unlucky you can be) has no actual limit. Though on average you should come out to the average proc time after the internal cooldown.

    On Calculation complexity...

    Naturally, there are a lot of things that get factored in. Talents and other abilities can cause an effect which increases or decreases the benefit of on use or on proc mechanics. Depending on what the effect is you will have different variables which contribute towards it.
    "In anything, if you want to go from just a beginner to a pro, you need a montage." /w TankSpot WTB Montage for Raiders.

  13. #1133
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    Okay now when it comes to quantum mechanics... lol just kidding. Thanks for the answers Quinafoi

  14. #1134
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quinafoi View Post
    Man you ask some tough questions.
    Seriously... You have some beautiful answers.
    Quote Originally Posted by WarTotem View Post
    You know you just called yourself an asshat, right?

  15. #1135
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    Hello , i'm new here , didnt read all 50+ pages of this topic sry , and i didnt see nothing about my question at rules etc , so here it goes : is this site/forum only for people who plays on original server or can people who plays on "private" servers can post here to without any problems ? Thanks in advance. ( sry for the mistakes in spelling if there are any).

  16. #1136
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    We are discussing the official game mechanics around here. Private servers have their own rulesets so propably nobody would be able to help here.
    That and one could have quite specific opinions on private servers. I can't imagine Blizz reserves a special place in its corporate heart for them.
    Except in the legal department.

    SIMON DE MONTFORT, EARL OF LEICESTER
    pioneer of representative government who was
    killed in the Battle of Evesham on 4 August 1265.


  17. #1137
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eyeshield21 View Post
    Hello , i'm new here , didnt read all 50+ pages of this topic sry , and i didnt see nothing about my question at rules etc , so here it goes : is this site/forum only for people who plays on original server or can people who plays on "private" servers can post here to without any problems ? Thanks in advance. ( sry for the mistakes in spelling if there are any).
    Running a private World of Warcraft service is a violation of copyright law. The server software is theirs alone, any version of it distributed is illegal. Discussing participation in illegal activities is probably ill advised in a public forum.
    "In anything, if you want to go from just a beginner to a pro, you need a montage." /w TankSpot WTB Montage for Raiders.

  18. #1138
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    More so than that, this site is an official WoW fan site. Which has additional restrictions on content. IE - we're not allowed to post data-mined content. Although, that's really hard to moderate... but it is a rule.

    So I'd imagine private server discussions are very very big no-no's.

    But if mean does just playing on one ban you from the site? That shouldn't stop you from using this site unless you start talking about quirks to it or how to access it or what not. But since most private servers are modified in some way, the information on this site may not be all that useful for you anyways (have never been on a private server so have no idea).

  19. #1139
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    I was trying to make a reply to a private message from someone asking questions about my UI and got a message I can only make one post in 120 minutes?

    I'm sort of confused why I have to wait 2 hours to converse through PM's with someone.
    There is something so appealing about backhanding someone across the face with a shield.

  20. #1140
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bodasafa View Post
    I was trying to make a reply to a private message from someone asking questions about my UI and got a message I can only make one post in 120 minutes?

    I'm sort of confused why I have to wait 2 hours to converse through PM's with someone.
    I believe it's just a limitation of a non-subscription accounts. As for the "why" part, only an admin could answer the reason for the decision to limit it.
    "In anything, if you want to go from just a beginner to a pro, you need a montage." /w TankSpot WTB Montage for Raiders.

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