Ask Small Questions that Don't Deserve a Thread

[Rak]

No, you don't have to. I never worried about it.

[peanut7046]

A quick question that may belong elsewhere, or may have been answered. I'm new to warriorism and I've been reading all about rotations and things of the like. I'm not high end yet (only level 17 draenei) and I'm confused about why it's said that you need to have a rage dump, and you should only keep ~50 rage during the entire fight, and if you go above this you *must* dump rage. I thought warriors lived off of their rage, so endless high rage would be what's wanted, right? I run out of rage almost constantly even though I'm fury specced and following the fury leveling guide I found here. Anyway, can this be explained a little more?

[Kazeyonoma]

Well first of all, rage dumping means, Using rage that would otherwise be wasted.

This means using heroic strikes to replace white hits which in effect give you a boost to your damage or threat (tanking) while maintaining good usage of your rage.

See there is a limit to the amount of rage you can get, 100. If you let it reach 100, and don't use the rage, any further rage you generate from outgoing or incoming damage is wasted, because you effectively gained 0 rage from it. now if you were able to say, keep your rage below 50 by efficiently using you abilities, you'd never "waste" rage, and in effect, the more rage you can put out the more damage/threat you put out, and therefore be a better warrior.

[peanut7046]

Erm, I guess I don't understand. That's probably because this is my first warrior as well. I can somewhat understand what you mean by "wasted rage" in that warriors generate rage from giving/taking blows. I know that rage is a warrior's "mana", so to speak. What I'm not understanding is the concept. I mean, as long as you have a full rage bar, you can do endless attacks and special attacks that require rage. Do you mean that a warrior who isn't using his/her skills correctly would acquire more rage than being used, so it would result in a surplus of rage, or a capped 100 rage?

I'm sorry to sound stupid about this, but I guess it's just because I haven't played the class enough to understand it. I've gotten 5/5 Cruelty and 3/5 Unbridled Wrath. I'm not generating almost 100 rage per fight now and I can't even use it all up spamming every skill I have. I only feel I wasted it when there is rage left over after the target is dead.

LoL

I'm sorry, I probably sound like a n00b. I am a n00b to the warrior class, but not to WoW.

[Kazeyonoma]

Okay so lets look at this scenario.

You're sitting at 100 rage, and you are waiting for your abilities to come off of cooldown. You have 2 options.
1) heroic strike and do +x more damage and consume 15 rage and the next white swing
or
2) do nothing and just hit for white damage

Followed by the monster hitting you before your cooldowns back up.

Now:
1) You used 15 rage and didn't gain any back because you consumed the white hit into a heroic strike, you're sitting at 85 rage now, but you dealt more damage because of it. Mob hits you and now you're back at 95 rage. You effectively lost only 5 rage but dealt more damage for it.

2) You used 0 rage, didn't gain any back because your white hit generated 0 since you're already at 100 rage, and you're still at 100 rage now, the monster hits you, and you gain 0 rage as well because you're already at 100 rage. You've effectively wasted opportunities to use rage and gain it back by not using heroic strike.


What you want to do is instead, spam heroic strike instead till you're back down to about 50 rage or so, While still using your other abilities that have cooldowns. What this'll do is allow you to better utilize your rage to deal damage. Rage converts to damage essentially for warriors. So once it gets to 100, if you're not using it, you're not doing as much damage as you could be doing. At 50 rage, you should be able to use whatever other abilities you have once they come off of cooldown, and STILL have room to gain more rage via your own hits or being hit, AND by using other abilities such as heroic strike which "dumps rage into damage" you deal more damage as well.


Think of it this way if you've ever played a caster dps before:
You have 100% mana right now.
Would you A) cast a spell for damage, or b) wand the person.

Both will deal damage, but 1 will deal more, but cost mana, while the other doesn't.

Keep in mind that your mana will come back due to say... high amounts of mp5 or mana regen, so if you don't use it, you're effectively doing less with your mana. Does this make more sense?

[peanut7046]

I gotcha now! I just didn't understand the "surface" language. It had to be broken down for me.

It's like a weird circle. Spend rage to damage, sit back and take damage while building more rage to put out more damage. Kind of like a math equation of sorts. "Dump" rage and increase damage exponentially. Don't dump it, and just do standardized damage. I can tie all this in now. More damage = more threat. More threat = more aggro. More aggro = better mob glue. Better glue = no raid wipe. That's a good thing.

Sorry about that. =D

[Kazeyonoma]

Exactly!

[Manginae]

Ima sound like a noob but whats the difference between dev and sunder Take it easy on meh ive only gotton the knowledge i know from the warrior leader in my guild

[Arudar]

Ima sound like a noob but whats the difference between dev and sunder Take it easy on meh ive only gotton the knowledge i know from the warrior leader in my guild

Devastate is basically Sunder with bells and whistles attached - the bells and whistles in this case taking the form of extra threat and extra damage. When you devastate, it applies a sunder (the armor reduction debuff and the threat associated with a sunder) as well as another slice of threat associated with the devastate itself and damage based on your weapon damage. The maths can get complicated, but basically devastate adds most threat upto 5 sunders, and from then on adds a lower but still decent amount (as well as refreshing the sunder debuff). Essentially what you need to know is: devastate is much better than sunder, both threat- and damage-wise.

[Manginae]

Ya what i thought just bin seen when people talk about the rotations they use some say sunder so.. thanks :-)

[crassy]

Why would you ever want to use Rend? It's my least used ability, just taking up space on the bar. Someone please explain?

[Ceravantes]

Short Answer: You wouldn't really want to, you can safely remove it from your bar.

Long Answer: There are a few isntances where some people would argue for using rend....I never saw it as making enough of a difference to matter.

I have not had rend on my bars for over 2 years.

[rascalion]

Rend is fairly powerful at low levels (1-20). At higher levels, it's only useful as a DoT on rogues to keep them out of stealth.

[Atank on Greymane]

I just started Atank (Tauren Warrior) and he is up to level 44 now.

I have been putting all my points into Protection, but I seem to be going slower & slower while questing.

What spec would you all recommend for leveling that would still allow me to tank instances? Also, what 'type' of weapons would you recommend (dual wielding, 2 handed slow, etc..) for leveling since I will be using board & sword for tanking?

Thank you for the help,
Atank on Greymane

PS: Atank is the character name if you want to take a look at armory

The World of Warcraft Armory

[Kazeyonoma]

In the Guides section check out "Warrior Leveling Demystified".

[ebs2002]

Regarding Rend: it's great against rogues in PvP. It's also decent when tanking Leo (but certainly not enough to warrant spending points in Imp. Rend). Assuming the rest of your DPS drops their dots soon enough and nobody heals/attacks on the transitions, that tick of rend can send him right to you.

[sorednbored]

Tanking Non-Physical encounters.

Is there any merit in any 'normal' Tanking stats (Armor/Defense/Dodge/Block etc.) when tanking a Magical damage boss? Or is it just Stamina & Resistance gear that's needed?

[mero12513]

Stamina, resistance gear, and keep the defense cap. You still don't want to get critted. Everything else is still certainly helpful, but probably less important. Keep the maximum EH and avoidance you can while maintaining maximum effective resistance (360 I think) and minimum defense.

[Sleipner]

I wonder if it will be worth moving 3 points (all of them) out of Imp. Thunderclap into Imp. Demo Shout? I raid tank only(10 and 25 man), no 5-mans at all. So I am thinking I don't need Imp. Thunderclap...??

[Kazeyonoma]

Imp Thunderclap increases the speed reduction from 10% to 20% as a raid tank, this is WAY better than the 3/5 demo shout. You want that 20% reduction in swing speed from the boss. It's part of what makes warriors so great.

If you have an OT who can do it for you then sure I guess you don't need it, but if you have an OT he should spec 2/5 imp demo (to reduce boss AP to 0) or 5/5 imp demo (reduce boss AP to nearly 0 if you have a warlock who puts up curse of recklessness).

In either case, if you have an OT you shouldn't spec into either of them, but if you don't then you definitely want imp tclap. It's not just the damage component it's used for, it's for the speed reduction.