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Thread: Shield Block - When not to use?

  1. #1

    Shield Block - When not to use?

    Before I ask questions, heres a link to my armory.
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    I see some warriors, and watching Firstbloods videos is what promoted this post, not using Shield Block sometimes. When is it acceptable not to use shield block? Is there a point where your armor/health reaches a point that you'd rather take the risk of taking a crushing blow that wouldn't be that damaging to you just so you can get rage/threat? I know that druids can't push crushing blows off the table like warriors can and that's not a big problem because of their high armor. Does it depend on your gear, the boss encounter/phase?

  2. #2
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    Sometimes i go through periods where i dont get hit for over 15 seconds, so with the limmited rage that i am getting i would have to budget it correctly. If i know the boss that i am fighting only hits for 4k, a 6k crush wont exactly hurt much with an HP pool of 20k (especially if i havnt been hit for some time and i am sitting at 100%.)
    I think if your healers are smart, you can offord not to use SB sometimes for the sake of establishing higher threat. Think of it this way, if you are getting hit then you have the rage to SB, if you are not getting hit then occasionaly sacreficing SB for the sakes of hitting SS on CD if its a threat sensative fight.

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    There were a few times where I barely used Shield Block because I needed rage or the boss just didn't put me in danger of dying. Noth in Naxxramas was a good example of this.

    Shield Block acts as a spigot for rage. If you can afford not to use it -- which is pretty rare -- you'll get more rage by not using it. Most of the time you want to, though.

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    Also consider there is a bunch of fights at end game hyjal and BT that the bosses DONT crush at all. Archimonde and Illidan obviously two good examples. The main draw of shield block is to avoid crushing blows, but when a mob doesnt crush you obviously dont have the urgent need to shield block especially if rage is an issue.

    Now take a boss like Teron Gorefiend who has a decent attack speed and if he crushes he will make pretty short work of you, you def dont want to miss a shield block.

    Now in an infinite rage situation there is no reason to not hit shield block every time its up. In end game gear with decent shield block value you mitigate a decent amount of damage.

  5. #5
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    Illidan don't crush? Or you need or shall have the gear to have near passive inmunity when you are starting to do Illidan?

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  6. #6
    I didn't know Illidan or Archimonde didn't crush. Why is that?

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    Both of them dont crush. I guess Blizzard heard the crys of people complaning, or perhaps that they hit so hard that a crush wont be very forgiving (most likly the later.) Illidan DW' so even if you SB, he will eat up the SB charges before the CD is back up. You also need to save SB for "Shear"

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    Hrm, never thought of it that way joana, tough luck for pallies and I hope they work in more pally tankable encounters in zul'aman and especially in wotlk.

    What I fear then in the cases of Illidan and Archimonde is what I feared doing 5 mans. What stops a guild from just bringing bear tanks. They are bigger sponges and now that CB's aren't an issue why bring either of the plate tanks?

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    If crushes are getting removed, don't Feral Druids become better than both Paladins and Warriors rather easily?

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    Yes, but that's assuming that warrior and paladin tanking doesn't get boosts in the expansion along with crushing blow removal (which isn't actually a known fact or anything). Or druid tanking could be limited more than it is now.

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    we tried having a bear tank archimonde, while he was taking softer hits due to AC, he was taking larger spikes because his avoidance wasnt as high as mine.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fame View Post
    we tried having a bear tank archimonde, while he was taking softer hits due to AC, he was taking larger spikes because his avoidance wasnt as high as mine.
    Interesting. This explains to me why warrior itemization is how it is at that level.

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    Is there some kind of actual evidence regarding the possibility of removing crushing blows, or is this just an unfounded, baseless rumor that people have been freaking out about? Keep in mind that boss damage is also not entirely physical, and warriors will be taking 16% less magic dmg than any other tank.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Joanadark View Post
    8% less than a Paladin.

    The Paladin will also take 22% less than warriors if we get hit by something when we're at 35% HP or less, saving us from a spike that would kill any other tank.



    You know, I wouldnt care about fears or spell-reflect and intervene gimmicks or turned-off crushing blows or any of the rest of it if there was a single boss in the game who disarmed.

    a gimmick fight is a gimmick fight, and gimmicks are stupid, no matter who they bias.
    As it is though, Hyjal and Black Temple contain more WARLOCK tanking than Paladin tanking.
    22% less dmg isn't a guaranteed save, but yes that is true.

    I see this reference to "gimmick fights" by a lot of people, but I don't really understand; what constitutes a gimmick fight? Many of the fights in BC are fairly complex in varying ways, and require specific class abilities or favor specific classes, which from what I am understanding is a gimmick fight. I'll list off what I suppose you would classify as gimmick fights then: Maulgar, Gruul, Magtheridon, Hydross, Leotheras, Tidewalker, Lurker, Vashj, Al'ar, Void Reaver, Kael'thas, Kaz'rogal, Reliquary of Souls, Archimonde, Mother Shahraz, Illidan, Attumen, Moroes, Maiden, Wizard of Oz, Shade of Aran, Nightbane, Illhoof, Prince. These fights all require a specific class ability, strongly favor a specific class or type (i.e. ranged >>>> melee), require resist gear, etc. There might be more but that's what I've got for now.

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    Alright, fair enough. And hi.

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    Response to OP

    I believe there are occasions which warrant NOT using shield block, though rare.

    Yesterday I was tanking Grulloc (of the quest Grulloc has Two Skulls) for a group working on the quest chain. When he gets his attack bonus, he hits very hard. As my shield block value is not even remotely close to what he was hitting me for (recorded hits of ~3000) I found it more useful to not use shield block as that still allows the vast majority of the damage through AND virtually guarantees a block/hit.

    Instead, allowing my avoidance to remove 38% of those hits from the table entirely was much more efficient on the healer.

    First try with shield block = wipe.
    Second try without shield block = easy as pie.

    So i suppose it depends on SBV in relation to Avoidance as well as how hard/often the target hits.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Korintar View Post
    I believe there are occasions which warrant NOT using shield block, though rare.

    Yesterday I was tanking Grulloc (of the quest Grulloc has Two Skulls) for a group working on the quest chain. When he gets his attack bonus, he hits very hard. As my shield block value is not even remotely close to what he was hitting me for (recorded hits of ~3000) I found it more useful to not use shield block as that still allows the vast majority of the damage through AND virtually guarantees a block/hit.

    Instead, allowing my avoidance to remove 38% of those hits from the table entirely was much more efficient on the healer.

    First try with shield block = wipe.
    Second try without shield block = easy as pie.

    So i suppose it depends on SBV in relation to Avoidance as well as how hard/often the target hits.
    Wait... what? What was the downside to using shield block in this case? And where did the number 38% come from?
    Are you saying that in this case you'd rather take more damage for more rage? Otherwise I don't understand what you're getting at.

  18. #18
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    I was preparing a response to this when i realized I am totally wrong in my previous post. (Whoops)

    The attack table is set up in such a way that excess block is pushed off before avoidance, thus there is no reason to not use shield block, unless in a rage starved situation.

    My bad. (sheepish grin)

    Edit: Apparently the second encounter i mentioned was just without a lucky string of hits.

  19. #19
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    If boss/mob doesn't crush, don't use it.
    If a crushing blow or even 2 would not put your health at risk and generating threat is more of a concern, don't use it.
    If the boss/mob can crush and taking one will put your health at risk, use it on CD.
    If threat is not a concern at all and the boss can crush, use it on CD.
    If you are passive crush immune (102.4% combined dodge/parry/miss/block) then obviously don't use it. Take it off your bar or something.
    If Illidan is casting Shear, use it.

  20. #20
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    Don't use it on elementals. Wasted rage.

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