Main Tank - Off Tank

[Trû]

So, I'm curious about MT and OT areas.
I've come to the understanding that MT and OT should be specced a little differently, and are expected to perform differently as well, but I'm not very clear on what that's really about.

I was under the impression that the tank focused on gaining and holding aggro of the entire pull, and that the plan was to pull a set of mobs that could be taken with a combination of healing the MT, and CC the ones that did damage in excess of potential healing. The OT would simply pick up any extras, spreading around the damage and taking pressure off the MT.

I don't think that's accurate anymore.

So I'm going to put forth a couple of scenarios and I'd like to have some feedback on what the MT and OT should be doing. ^.^ (Forgive my raid questions, I've no experience in a raid scenario yet, but I'd like to understand where I'm going when I get there.)

1) 5-Man, You've pulled 4 mobs: 1 DPS range, 1 Healing Caster, and 2 DPS melee mobs.

2) 5-Man, 4 mobs: All melee DPS

3) 5-Man, 3 Mobs: All range DPS

4) 5-Man, 6-8 Mobs: 2 Range DPS, 2 Healers, Melee DPS remains

5) Raid: I don't know what an avg size kind of pull might be here, but I hope someone can describe the MT/OT tactics. i know that the approach will be different depending on overall group construct and what you're facing, but an idea of the general themes would be appreciated!


I'm looking to answer questions like:
-- "In what situations does the MT tank just one or two mobs and the OT picks up the rest?"
-- "In what situations does the MT try to hold most/all the mobs and the OT catches the ones that have been pulled by accident to other party-members"
-- "Are there mobs that are not worth trying to tank, just leaving to the DPS?"
-- "Do the MT and the OT try to tank different types of mobs? (Casters/Melee DPS/Range DPS/Healers/etc...)"
-- "What kind of talents are good for an OT but not the MT?"
-- "Are there different gear choices?"

I'm sure there are others that I didn't think of, so any help would be appreciated!

[psychostomp]

5 mans dont generally need an OT only time one is used is when u have a dps war along and then you usually have him solo 1 mob and providing multi target dps thru cleave and WW to the focus fired target. For raids OT's are used on mobs that cant be CC'd or on bosses such as moroes who gouges and blinds the MT occasionally the OT is tasked with sustaing #2 threat so when the MT gets incapacitated the mob merely turns around to face the OT.

[Mozman]

in 5 mans you'd use an 'OT' as the /assist, so the MT can get aggro on the others as well and the focus fire target. when it goes down you assist the OT's new target.

in raids, depending on the encounter its the same scenario or as Psycho stated or quite often there will be multiple trash and bosses (or bosses adds) that need to be tanked - OT look after them

[Trû]

I still haven't heard any feedback on the list of questions at the bottom of the post, anyone have some feedback they'd like to offer?

[Kazeyonoma]

I'm looking to answer questions like:
-- "In what situations does the MT tank just one or two mobs and the OT picks up the rest?"

Situations in which the MT will need an OT as opposed to tanking just two or more are when: threat sensitive fights. some mobs hit so hard, they'll one shot a clothie, and sometimes they are very threat sensitive meaning they'll agro the 2nd in agro list after doing a specific move... or the warrior will be obviously overhealed a lot for this pull and healing agro will overtake the MT's threat on a secondary mob. Likewise if the MT can't handle the sheer damage from 2 or more mobs of that type, than you may need an off tank. Some examples of the 1st scenario are the Large Demon drillers in Heroic mech who Pound and change targets, or Skeletal Ushers in Karazhan. Examples of the latter scenario are the uncc'able naga's in heroic SP who comes in pairs, and the gaping maw fiends right after Chess Event in Karazhan.

-- "In what situations does the MT try to hold most/all the mobs and the OT catches the ones that have been pulled by accident to other party-members"

I would say Shattered Halls where you just have too many that a MT can't hold, since lots of skills that generate threat are single target, and our best AOE threat move as a warrior is only 5 targets, so in Shattered Halls where you have 7+ on single pulls, you may need a OT to watch for runners

-- "Are there mobs that are not worth trying to tank, just leaving to the DPS?"

Sometimes there are Non-Elite mobs, like in Mech the little bombing demons, or the guests in karazhan

-- "Do the MT and the OT try to tank different types of mobs? (Casters/Melee DPS/Range DPS/Healers/etc...)"

normally if the MT has the gear to survive them, he'll tank both, but if there are elemental differences (frost monster and nature monster) then you may need to swap out tanks... Like Hydross but that's more of two MT's not so much an OT. OT's in the Hydross fight are there to pick up adds, and actually have a 150Frost/150Nature hybrid tanking set, whereas the two MT's have full 365 Frost sets for 1 and 365 frost sets for the other.

-- "What kind of talents are good for an OT but not the MT?"

I think if you have a dedicated OT to pick up the slack for the MT, picking up Improved Thunderclap and at least 2/5 Improved Demoralizing Shout will save your MT 7 talent points in which he can place in other places to make him more flexible (say... opening up the chance to get imp heroic strikes and imp defensive stance).

-- "Are there different gear choices?"

Gear choices are normally the same, you just might have the hydross scenario I mentioned, and also in cases of Karazhan, a lot of OT's are just DPS warriors who put on a tanking set of gear and sword/board to tank a very quick pull or something. Normally not a game breaking difference between the two, and yet i've seen both. I've seen karazhan cleared easily with 2 prot tanks both spec'd a variation of 8/5/48 and i've seen karazhan cleared easily with 1 prot tank spec'd 8/5/48 and the OT spec'd a full dps spec 17/44/0 So it really matters more about understanding the fight, the skill of the tanks AND the skill of the DPS to not grab agro, and the gear available to both MT/OT

I'm sure there are others that I didn't think of, so any help would be appreciated!

Did this help? :]

[Trû]

That was brilliant! Thank you for the clear answers. You've been a great help Kazey, as has everyone. I really appreciate your taking the time to give me some simple insights into this.

^.^