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Thread: 2.4 Berg's Tank Gear Rankings (03/19/2008)

  1. #121
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    Quote Originally Posted by Berginyon View Post
    If it was a multiplicative bonus like with threat, base * 130% * 110%)= base * 143%
    This is probably why threat meters are inaccurate. It's not 143% threat as of patch 1.12 It's 137% threat as per your example. I know i know nobody tells people theese things. lol

    BTW love this equipment list. I disagree with a few items and most especially weapons. But without a doudt this is the best place for tanking gear. Great guide dude. I have it on my favorites.
    Last edited by catch22atplay; 02-21-2008 at 03:22 AM.

  2. #122
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    Did the math on threat. 30% for def stance. Add 15% for 3 points into anticipation. .7*.85=.595 1-.595=.405% so 140.5% Now for +2% threat. .7*.85*.98=.5831 1-.5831=.4169 so 141.69%. Difference of adding +2% threat was 141.69-140.5=1.19 or if you like 1.19% for easy comparisons.

    BTW i think they round off too. So def stance and 3/3 anticipations would be 141% and with +2% threat it would be 142%. Hmm doesn't 2% threat really look like crap now since it's only really a 1% increase assuming the rounding. Best case 1.19% increase. Worse case 1.00% increase. +2% threat is not looking so good to me. No wonder i prefer 15 agility.

    God hope this math is right or i'm wasting my time. Fairly sure it is. But /shrug
    Last edited by catch22atplay; 02-21-2008 at 03:29 AM.

  3. #123
    Quote Originally Posted by catch22atplay View Post
    So with our baseline of 100% then add 30% from talents then add 10% for the enchant we do the math. .7*.9=.63 so 1-.63=.37. Total is 137%

    The example they gave in the patch notes was a reduction. The values they are multiplying are under 1. This is still basic math and I completely understand how they got 43%. There is no special formula.

    Their example is 30% threat reduction stacked multiplicative with 20% threat reduction. This means that 70% of your threat will get through, then of that value only 80% of that threat will get through for a total of 56% of your threat getting through.

    With a multiplicative bonus (over 100%) you are getting 130% of your base value and then you get 110% of that value for a total of 143%.

  4. #124
    Quote Originally Posted by Egnever View Post
    Thanks for making such a brilliant thread for all of us to learn from, very interesting to read!

    I'm not very old in the game of tanking, so I was wondering. I know you're ranking expertise as aggrostat no1, but I still have to ask (amount vs amount, so to speak).

    Up until tonight I had [item]Bracers of the Ancient Phalanx[/item] with a +12 stamina enchant on, but during today's Kara [item]Vambraces of Courage[/item] dropped for me. I was wondering if [item]Vambraces of Courage[/item] with a +12 str enchant and a aggrogem would produce more aggro than my current bracers?

    I don't know which gem produces most aggro either, but I have access to all the normal blue ones (+8 hit, +8 parry, +8 str, etc, etc). In advance, thanks for any answers!

    Maybe I should re-enchant my [item]Bracers of the Ancient Phalanx[/item] with +12 str for aggro/heroics gear and gem/enchant [item]Vambraces of Courage[/item] for progresstanking?

    Or maybe just vendor Vambraces... ? Confused...
    [item]Bracers of the Ancient Phalanx[/item] will do more aggro. 5 Expertise is 2.5% increase to threat and the block value and a hit gem will not come close. Keep them enchanted with stam and you will likely never need another pair of bracers.

  5. #125
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    Berg you know about the only thing i know for sure is that Blizzard uses wacky math. I'm betting neither of us is right. Take Last stand for instance. It's supposed to be a 30% increase in health yet i just checked it on my toon and it's actually 31.49%. Tauren here so you may get different results. I think like you said earlier we need to actually test that block value enchant and see what it really does. I'd be extremely happy if your math proves correct. I'm hoping you're right.

  6. #126
    Added the new cloak and ring. Removed the DPS Onslaught pieces, without Stam they don't make the list.

  7. #127
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    hey. great list.

    could you add the new tank goggles as well?
    Hard Khorium Goggles - Items - World of Warcraft

    thanks

  8. #128
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    To start off, great work Berg. Really some interesting reading. Well, not many that arent on this page.

    I just came across this in the list :
    16. [Band of the Eternal Champion] (DPS Exaulted & Revered) 43STA TP:4052
    The World of Warcraft Armory
    * proc
    In the tank ring list. I'm not sure if thats an error or im just lost there DPS. What is that short of ? As I know they are rep rewards from Scale of the Sands, right ?
    Or is I'm totally off here ?

    Once again tnx for a great post.
    Addictive. Is it just a game ? - My view of the world and game mecanics.

  9. #129
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    Hey Berg,

    I had a look at your Tank-Point-scores and there are some serious flaws in it. It might be that you used different sets when calculating the scores for the different items.

    Anyway, take a look at this:
    [item]Enchant Cloak - Major Armor[/item] (120 Armor) TP:472
    [item]Lesser Arcanum of Tenacity[/item] (125 armor) TP:456

    How can an enchant with lower armor (and no other stats) have a higher score?

  10. #130
    Hard Khorium is in the list, its just not plum colored.

    That is the DPS ring for Scale of the Sands. I'll label it better next time I edit.

    I still have the exact same gearset for doing the tankpoint rankings. Sometimes while I have the old gear on a guildie will sneak Mark of the Wild or something on me and if I don't notice it, it can skew the numbers. Regardless I say ignore small differences in tankpoints do to the margin of error from 2.4 points of Defense Rating

  11. #131
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    I know that the answer to this question lies with me getting a tankpoints mod, but could someone help me with why [item]Destroyer Greathelm[/item] is so much higher than [item]Battleworn Tuskguard[/item] ? I guess I can see the amount of avoidance is much greater, but the 51 block value and 170 more hp on the Tuskguard seem pretty comparable to me.

    See my armory link below, we're basically at the end of t5 progression.

  12. #132
    Shield Block Rating has very little tankpoints value. I like shield block, good for aggro and I tend to prefer items that have +block on them, but it doesn't really have that much tankpoint value compared to a stack of avoidance.

    What will make this decision easy in 2.4 is that the ZA helm does not have a meta, and the new meta kicks a lot of ass.

  13. #133
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    Thanks for all the hard work you have put into this. One thing that got overlooked I believe is the Heavy Knothide Armor Kit. Very inexpensive way to add 10 Stam to hands. Maybe not the best thing, but certainly worthwhile.

  14. #134
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    Awesome list. I wanted to offer [item]Strength of the Violet Tower[/item] It is a very easy quest item to pick up for initial defense gearing.

  15. #135
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    I've been wondering about this for a long time but which cloak enchant is better, 120 armor or +12 agility?

  16. #136
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    Quote Originally Posted by Striked View Post
    I've been wondering about this for a long time but which cloak enchant is better, 120 armor or +12 agility?
    For me - agility is significantly better.

  17. #137
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    One thing I don't understand:

    [Thick Dawnstone] (yellow +8 Defense) TP:594
    + [Solid Star of Elune] (blue, +12 STA) TP:649
    ----------------------------------------------
    +8 Defense, +12 STA TP:1243


    [Enduring Talasite] (green, +4 DEF, +6 STA) TP:523
    + [Enduring Talasite] (green, +4 DEF, +6 STA) TP:523
    ----------------------------------------------------
    +8 Defense, +12 STA TP:1046


    How's that?

  18. #138
    a rating point of Defense has 0 tankpoints, however if that 1 rating point gets you to go up 1 defense skill point then it has value. You only get a skill point for ever 2.4 rating, so its possible that 2 rating points award 0 tankpoints. I put in the disclaimer to put little value in point differences under 250 or so.

  19. #139
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    I understand. Actually, I read the disclaimer some time ago when I read the whole post, just forgot about this one, when this "irregularity" caught my eye. Thanks for clearing this up again.

    However, doesn't this make the whole gems-section pretty much useless, as the jewelcrafter-only gems are the only ones that have a TP-difference of more than 300 to others? Wouldn't it be more practical to just give 1/2.4 of the tankpoints per defense to every point of defense-rating?

  20. #140
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    Very nice information, thank you very much.

    The Gladiator's Shield Wall (Shield #8) is listed as costing 1,875 Arena points. Wowhead lists it as costing 15,000 Honor Points plus 10 EOTS marks.

    I purchased these at the AH last night:

    Warlord's Iron-Epaulets - Items - World of Warcraft

    ...of the Champion. With 827 armor, 22 STR, 33 STA, 22Def Rating I would think they would be included on the list of shoulders. Oversight, or am I missing something.

    Thanks!

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