2.4 Berg's Tank Gear Rankings (03/19/2008)

[Ciderhelm]

In before 200,000 views.

[jlafleur]

great guide. got a question. You list felsteel legs above timewarden's leggings but state that you should replace felsteel legs with them.

"Entry-level raiding: Putting 3 stam gems in Timewarden's leggings will get you the top stamina piece for that tier. Felsteel is a great starter item until you have Timewarden's. "

[Berginyon]

The baseline I used is full Kara/T4. When you are at the point of deciding between the 2 legs, stamina has more value then it does when you are all epic. The rankings will change slightly as your other gear gets better.

[Radhja]

Wow. You just saved me DAYS of Armory lag by doing this. Many many thanks.

(Just wondering... is this a comprehensive Tank gear guide, or just for Prot Warriors? I have a Paly friend I'm wanting to gear up to be my OT, but I know little-to-nothing about paly tanking)

Thanks!!!

[Kazeyonoma]

Berg's stated its mostly for warriors, but some pieces of pally gear might creep up in here or there due to their usefulness, it'd simply be too daunting a task to include both pally and warrior gear though. If you want to follow Berg's format and make a comprehensive list of pally gear that'd be great! but keep in mind... no one is as crazy as Berg with this stuff =P

[Ciderhelm]

I approved all the linkbacks to increase your Google return on this. You'll see a lot of the places where people are visiting from as well. If it's too distracting I'll remove them.

[Thist]

Please can you add the Executioner enchant and how you rank it, plus how you rate tier set bonuses.

[Grabmill]

It has been said before, but I want to emphasize on it again: [item]Shapeshifter's Signet[/item] should be listed in the threat rings list. Maybe even in the normal tank rings list, although, as said before, Expertise isn't being given any points atm.

Furthermore a small typo in Bulwark of the Ancient Kings (you forgot "the"), so the link doesn't work.

[Berginyon]

I added Shapeshifter's Signet and fixed the Bulwark link.

Executioner is armor penetration and has no Tank Points. It's fine for an aggro weapon but it's unlisted just like +Strength. Tier bonuses are hard to judge, you would need proc rates and many have situational conditions to them.

[Yurend]

Thank you for all the work you have put in, and obviously continue to do on this project.
I am very happy to see a balanced point of view, and will definitely be downloading the Tankpoints mod very soon.
I have generally been gearing and geming more for avoidance, but am getting to a point where I know I will need a bit more EH. I will be using Tankpoints and this guide to help me along.
Thanks again, and I'll be checking back for updates.

[Ciderhelm]

Apologies for those who were checking this thread with broken itemlinks this morning, it was an unintended result of forum software upgrades. Kazey and I have fixed the links.

[Peegee]

Romulo's Poison Vial - WoWWiki - Your guide to the World of Warcraft

Where does this rank in that list?

[Kazeyonoma]

Its not a bad threat tool definitely, but as this rating system is based on Tankpoints, that has little to no tankpoints and wouldn't qualify. It does deserve honorable mention though for more hit if you already meet EH minimums for a fight.

[alanu01]

How about Ironsole Clompers?
The World of Warcraft Armory
I know these are lvl 60, but when gemmed properly(I know mine aren't, but that will be fixed in the future), I fell that they are better than the flest beast's metal greaves.

[Berginyon]

Updated with a preview of some of the latest PTR 2.4 info.

[catch22atplay]

[Eternal Earthstorm Diamond] (12Def, 10%Block) TP:2423 *best crafted meta*

This is now the one and only tanking meta gem. On my baseline gear the +10% to block value gives 1428 TP, but on my current gearset of T5/BT gear it gives 2088. YES, finally an item that scales with the quality of your gear! +10% Block Value increases both mitigation and aggro, and I assume this will stack with Shield Mastery multicatively for a total 43% bonus.

No Berg multiplicative so it would be a total of 37%. So basically the gem is a 7% increase in our block value. Not 13% increase like you listed. I know it's confusing as hell. But that's the way it is.

37% total not 43% total

[Grabmill]

If it's 10% extra of the Base Block Value, you would gain:

X = current block value
1.3*X = BV including talents

0.1*X = gain through the gem
Which totals to 1.4*X.
1.4/1.3 = 1.077

That's how catch22atplay came to 7% I guess (although it's a bit more than 7%).

If it would be really multiplicative, you would end up with 1.1*1.3*X = 1.43*X.
In that case it would still not be a 13% increase, but a 10% increase, as 1.43/1.3 = 1.1.

[Berginyon]

So wait, catch22 are you saying that the value is not multiplicative on the PTR? Or are you disputing my math? Can anyone else confirm the behavior of the meta from the PTR or has it not dropped?

Correct me if I am wrong on the math, but if it was a summative bonus such as crit or hit, base * (130% + 110%) = base * 140%. If it was a multiplicative bonus like with threat, base * 130% * 110%)= base * 143%

Catch22 you are calculating the % increase in block value against the shield mastery buffed value assuming a summative bonus.

[Egnever]

Thanks for making such a brilliant thread for all of us to learn from, very interesting to read!

I'm not very old in the game of tanking, so I was wondering. I know you're ranking expertise as aggrostat no1, but I still have to ask (amount vs amount, so to speak).

Up until tonight I had [item]Bracers of the Ancient Phalanx[/item] with a +12 stamina enchant on, but during today's Kara [item]Vambraces of Courage[/item] dropped for me. I was wondering if [item]Vambraces of Courage[/item] with a +12 str enchant and a aggrogem would produce more aggro than my current bracers?

I don't know which gem produces most aggro either, but I have access to all the normal blue ones (+8 hit, +8 parry, +8 str, etc, etc). In advance, thanks for any answers!

Maybe I should re-enchant my [item]Bracers of the Ancient Phalanx[/item] with +12 str for aggro/heroics gear and gem/enchant [item]Vambraces of Courage[/item] for progresstanking?

Or maybe just vendor Vambraces... ? Confused...

[catch22atplay]

So wait, catch22 are you saying that the value is not multiplicative on the PTR? Or are you disputing my math? Can anyone else confirm the behavior of the meta from the PTR or has it not dropped?

Correct me if I am wrong on the math, but if it was a summative bonus such as crit or hit, base * (130% + 110%) = base * 140%. If it was a multiplicative bonus like with threat, base * 130% * 110%)= base * 143%

Catch22 you are calculating the % increase in block value against the shield mastery buffed value assuming a summative bonus.

Yes i dispute your math as being flawed. Here's an example of how you are currently doing it. Let's say i do 1,000 damage a swing but i have a talent that increases it by 50%. This would do 150% damage so 1,500. Not let's say i have an item that procs to increase my damage by another 50%. By your math you'd do 225% damage so 2,250. With additive it would be 200% so 2,000 damage. By blizzards muliplicative way of doing it it's supposed to do 175% damage so 1,750.

They calculate it like this and forgive the math here as it's bothersome. When figuring the math let's say it's threat reduction as blizzard shows in thier 1.12 patch notes.

Previously, some were additive (for example: 30% reduction + 20% reduction = 50% reduction) while others were multiplicative 30% reduction and 20% reduction made 44% reduction, from 0.7*0.8 They are now all multiplicative.This also prevents unpredictable behavior when the total reduction percentage was equal to or greater than 100%. Please note that in almost all cases, when stacking multiple threat reduction effects you will experience less threat reduction than previously.

So notice it was additive but now it's muliplicative for everything. Also that this is incorporated into haste effects and also adding up stamina bonuses such as my racial taurnen stamina bonus on top of my tanking talent. Also notice a 20% and 30% reduction they used the math 0.8*0.7 This equals .56. So how did they get 44%? 1.56=156% that don't work. 100*.56=56% hmm wrong again. 1-.56=.44=44%. AH bingo that worked.

So with our baseline of 100% then add 30% from talents then add 10% for the enchant we do the math. .7*.9=.63 so 1-.63=.37. Total is 137%

BTW Berg this also applies to say 2% threat enchant. We don't actually get 2% from it. More like 1.2% at a quick guess here. Just a FYI