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Thread: Defining Block Value as Mitigation

  1. #1
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    Defining Block Value as Mitigation

    Shield Block Value and additional Effective Health
    The Effective Health shown on this website is reliable and accurate. However, there is an additional, scaling bonus to your Effective Health in the form of Shield Block Value. This is the secondary scaling of Shield Block Value (the primary scaling is already included in the equation here).

    In addition to increasing your Effective Health by a base amount -- exactly like Health -- it also decreases a percentage of damage taken. However, the percentage decrease cannot be quantified without detailed information regarding the attack speed, average damage, and maximum damage of your enemy.

    Consider the difference between going into a 5-man or Heroic instance with 500 Block Value and going into a fully realized raid boss encounter with same. The percentage reduction -- and your total Effective Health -- will be different for each encounter. Where you might gain limited advantages to Mitigation against some bosses, others, such as the Prince in Karazhan, will yield far better returns with Block Value. In some cases, especially in world farming, Effective Health can multiply several times over due to a state of near-invulnerability.

    Shield Block Value is the stat with the highest potential in the Effective Health equation. It shares a unique relationship with both Health and Armor. Armor is a curved mechanism for increasing Mitigation; Shield Block Value, however, is a linear mechanism for increasing Mitigation. In other words, Shield Block Value does to Mitigation what Health does to Life.

    Shield Block Value gains the same benefit as Health when factoring in Armor. As Armor increases, the value of each point of Shield Block Value increases. Then, as the value of Shield Block Value increases from Armor, the value of Health and the impact on Effective Health increases unpredictably -- unless we know the incoming damage values.

    However, keep in mind how limited Shield Block Value is on gear. Reaching 1,000 Shield Block Value, for instance, is virtually impossible without the use of trinkets or the Tier 5 Shield Block Value bonus. Blizzard most likely itemizes large amounts of Block Rating -- a near worthless stat for Warrior raid tanks -- to keep item levels and potential Block Value in check. Unfortunately, this also extends to gem choices, and it is this reason -- not potential Shield Slam damage -- that we are unlikely to see many Block Value gems on the horizon.

    Complex? Sure. Bottom line: don't write Shield Block Value off for it's Mitigation value.

    Thus, Avoidance also helps reliably keep Effective Health high. By increasing Avoidance such as Dodge, you simultaneously decrease the chance of incoming attacks not being avoided or blocked. Indeed, increasing Avoidance will keep more Shield Block charges active for longer, and with enough of it, you become virtually immune to Crushing Blows in most encounters.

    This isn't to say that you need to go gem everything with Avoidance. Please note the wording in bold -- it will not increase Effective Health. It will only help stabilize your rate of effective Shield Blocks, which in turn allows Block Value to be reliably factored in. Heavy Avoidance is only important for some boss fights -- boss fights you would probably use some Avoidance gear for in the first place. Also, Warrior equipment is already unusually weighted with Avoidance stats, and you gain plenty through normal gearing.

  2. #2
    Yay for pushing the theorycrafting envelope. Good and valid argument, all of it.

    By the way, wouldn't it make sense for effective health calculations to generally assume and account for Defensive Stance? Or maybe add a checkbox to make it an option? Seems to me that a calculator that includes both Def Stance and Block Value would help demonstrate how warrior mitigation can get much closer to that of Druids than most people realize.
    Armstrong
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    Burning Legion US

  3. #3
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    Interesting. Another important thing to note however, in cases where attacks cannot be blocked (Hydross for example), this theory does not come into play, at least the blocking portion of it dosen't. Forgive me for playing Devil's advocate, but I just wanted to point that out.

  4. #4
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    I've always considered sbv a very essential stat beyond threat because I viewed it in exactly this way, just didn't know how to word it.

    its not just 400 additional health... for every blocked hit, its another additional 400 health. Does that make sense?

  5. #5
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    oh btw, off topic here, but did you know you can crushing blow other players? I got MC'd in slave pen's and Crushed my healer for 2.5k before I whirlwind and mortal strikes him to death. =(

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kazeyonoma View Post
    oh btw, off topic here, but did you know you can crushing blow other players? I got MC'd in slave pen's and Crushed my healer for 2.5k before I whirlwind and mortal strikes him to death. =(
    This is likely due to the way that NPC mind control effects work, and also the source of glancing blow reports against players.

  7. #7
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    Yay for pushing the theorycrafting envelope. Good and valid argument, all of it.

    By the way, wouldn't it make sense for effective health calculations to generally assume and account for Defensive Stance? Or maybe add a checkbox to make it an option? Seems to me that a calculator that includes both Def Stance and Block Value would help demonstrate how warrior mitigation can get much closer to that of Druids than most people realize.
    I don't know how to practically apply it. I'd like to, but I just don't know how. Tell me if this is mathematically sound:

    If I reduce incoming damage by 10%, I am increasing effective health by 10%.

    Something about that just seems to be bad, like all of the math problems in high school that made sense but never turned out right.


    The other problem with Block Value is that I can only quantify it from one end. Unless we know how hard the mob is hitting on average, we are unable to determine exactly how the damage reduction is coming into play.

    You would have to have two outputs to determine the mitigation value of block value. First, what is the most powerful attack a mob can do? That's the only one we can base Effective Health on, as the theory is designed to withstand the worst-possible scenario.

    Second, overall mitigation would be based on the average damage and speed of the attack. This would be something to factor in with avoidance, etc.


    its not just 400 additional health... for every blocked hit, its another additional 400 health. Does that make sense?
    Yes, it does.

  8. #8
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    Block Value is like another form of Dodge. It's basically crappy dodge when it comes to mitigation. If you have a 20% block rate with 500 Block Value then you end up with ~100 damage reduction. If the mob after armor does only 100 damage then this effectively turns your Blocks into Dodges. (with some other minor benefits.. yes ... yes)

    Don't get me wrong I love Block Value, but I just don't see it working well with Mitigation. Block Value smacks more of Avoidance in my mind.

    In regards to:
    If I reduce incoming damage by 10%, I am increasing effective health by 10%.

    Just throw it in our formula: Effective Health = Health / (1 - Reduction)

    10,000 Health / (1 - 50% Reduction) = 20,000 Effective Health
    10,000 Health / (1 - 60% Reduction) = 25,000 Effective Health

    15,000 Health / (1 - 50% Reduction) = 30,000 Effective Health
    15,000 Health / (1 - 60% Reduction) = 37,500 Effective Health

    20,000 Health / (1 - 50% Reduction) = 40,000 Effective Health
    20,000 Health / (1 - 60% Reduction) = 50,000 Effective Health

    In all three cases (I must say this result surprised me a lot I didn't think it'd be so elegant)...
    If I reduce incoming damage by 10%, I am increasing effective health by 25%!

  9. #9
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    Wow... those #'s they seem too.. perfect.

    The problem then with SBV and that equation is that, depending on how hard the mob hits, SBV will either go up or down in &#37; reduction.

    SBV can get as high as 100% reduction on small hitting mobs, but get below 5% reduction on super hard hitting mobs. Most flexible mitigation stat there is? I think so =] but it doubles as threat, which makes it doubly as good. I agree with Ciderhelm here, and that Blizzard KNOWS that stacking shield block value is actually a supendous way of increasing effective health because as you push more shield block value, you're % reduction can scale way up, especially on trash, and hence why the badge trinket is for SBV and not say parry or dodge (no parry trinkets are there?). I have reason to believe that once you reach a certain value of effective health through Stam/AC, SBV is the single greatest stat you can obtain to push your effective health, more so than any avoidance stat because of the static "extra health" it gives on top of shield slam damage. I might just be rewording Ciderhelm in Fortifications (might be why it sounds so familiar), but am I crazy for thinking this?

  10. #10
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    Defensive Stance isn't additive that way unfortunately. That's where the issue is. However, that gives me an idea on how to do it correctly.

  11. #11
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    Defensive Stance is now *hopefully* in there correctly. I'm adding a few new features, I'll tidy up the names once it's done, but Defensive Stance should offer a separate EH.

  12. #12
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    [QUOTE=veneretio;36949]Don't get me wrong I love Block Value, but I just don't see it working well with Mitigation. Block Value smacks more of Avoidance in my mind.
    QUOTE]

    I think it is more mitigation than anything, you effectivly lower the dps of the mob that is hitting you. I am in no way avoiding the damage but I effectivly lower the DPS of that mob. The only problem with formulating this like Ciderhelm said is knowing the actual output of the mob you are getting hit by. The easiest way to apply this to mitigation is probably not through effective healing but through incoming damage. There are to many random variables for effective healing based on the block % and the flux of having a different block value at different times.

  13. #13
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    I updated the original post to reflect changes on Effective Health and the TankSpot Calc page.

  14. #14
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    here's some math I did for someone in terms of SBV versus Stamina, and it coincides with what Ciderhelm says I think. Did I theorycraft correctly? ;x

    WoW Forums -> Stamina VS Shield Block Value

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    I need 30 minutes or so to actually wake up. then I'll check.

  16. #16
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    heh k, thanks, =]

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