11/7/43 -- Maximum Efficiency

[Ciderhelm]

Ok, strange one. Two big losses on this build are Imp Defensive Stance and Imp Shield Wall, so you'd want to respec when working on Kael'thas and Hydross, etc. I'm assuming raiding, not 5-mans with this, so no Imp Revenge or Imp Shield Bash.

WorldofWarcraft.com -> Info -> Classes -> Warrior -> Talent Calculator
Some very slight point variations to the standard builds I used to promote. Would be very solid for pretty much everything, though.

[Groundchuck]

What would you bother with the 2 points in imp demo shout?

It's pretty easy to have another warrior spec that way, make a fury warrior use demo etc....

[Kazeyonoma]

I'm a little confused about the 2 in demo shout as well =T

[Voltaik]

Could you explain the single point in tactical mastery? I seem to be seeing that a lot.

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Also this is my first post though I've been reading for a while. This forum has been extremely useful to me, thanks for all the good info!

[Ciderhelm]

It's an all-around spec, so let's assume that you might not have a second Warrior for imp Demo.

Now, the reason? According to research on EJ, more than 2 points in Imp Demo is not necessarily effective. There's some followup research being done on this, but it seems to hold true. The full 5 points becomes effective if Curse of Recklessness is up on the target, though.


One point in Tactical Mastery is Intercept-Pummel. For tanking purposes the one point can be helpful. 3 points obviously would be as well, but 1 point is enough for that particular move.

[Kazeyonoma]

ah, that works, but wont the intercept stun cancel the cast anyways? And I've heard of the 2 points thing with demo shout, care to elaborate? why is it no more effective past it?

[Ciderhelm]

Quoting Harryhausen on WoW-US Warrior Forums:

http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/th...icId=102782410

I would start there and then follow the links to ElitistJerks and other WoW Forum threads until you get bored.

[Ciderhelm]

ah, that works, but wont the intercept stun cancel the cast anyways?

And because I forgot to answer this part... depends on the mob. I used Intercept-Pummel for Aran. Will work on all the Immune-to-stun mobs.

[Kazeyonoma]

true true, good point, and interesting findings by Dots. Strange that blizz would put talents to have us reduce AP beyond that of NPC average APs. INCLUDING boss mobs. O_o.

[Rokar]

Wouldn't it be more benificial, if you just put 3 points in imp. heroic strike (instead of one point in anger management), as you will certainly be heroic-striking more often than once per 3 seconds as tank?

[Stonehoof]

I have a Number of basic cookie cutter builds that I use as a floor mat to create other builds on.

The one I use for Prot is one that I named "Full Midigation"
http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/...30002123531301

As I said it just a base, from that I start chipping away and build a Prot build that I am truely happy with.

My chain of thought is to start with as much midigation as possible then start taking parts away as it suits my gear, guild, or encoutner.

[Ejunk]

This is my spec: http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=TV0cZVMZ0EtoI0dcgst

I like it, and it works great for most encounters i've fought, even though i've only been up to Gruul.

[Mozman]

the great thing I love about AM is watching my rage bar increase while in combat - especially when I have only 9 rage...

[Bind]

Is Anger Management better than it somewhat appears to be?

I would love to incorporate it in one of my talent specs, but I often wonder if going 11 points into Arms rather than my usual 8 (5/5 Parry, 3/3 TC) is worth getting 1 extra rage every 3 seconds.

How does something like this look?

Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft

[Ratholorn]

This is almost the build that I use 90% of the time.
I drop 1 from Imp Sunder and 2 from Imp Demo to pick up 2/3 TM and 2/2 Imp Bloodrage (11/5/45). If we're working on a new boss with a magic component I generally respec to Imp Def Stance and lose 3 points in Cruelty (11/2/48). The reason being I rarely MT progression kills, our MT (obviously) has stellar attendance and I generally end up tanking adds in boss fights (exceptions being Hydross, FLK, etc).
As for AM, I find it most effective for reapplying shouts between pulls, I also like having it outside of raids

[Shaiden]

This is the build I currently use.
WorldofWarcraft.com -> Info -> Classes -> Warrior -> Talent Calculator

The differences between your over-all build and my build are fairly obvious. :X I'm primarily kara with some gruul tanking on the weekends (Hopefully mag soon!) and I find the additional utility of shield bash + revenge incredibly useful. (Albiet I admit, later on down the road, they'd be useless).

I'm assuming the two points in demo shout is to diminish the attack power of bosses to it's utmost so the MT doesn't have to rely on an OT speccing into it?

Also, I find improved bloodrage INCREDIBLY useful, shield slams right off the bat are a big help. Would anger management mitigate it's loss? Waaaaay back in the day when I was arms/fury I took it, but only really used it to rage-up before a boss (I miss that bug ;-( )

[Hello]

I noticed that improved sunder is in your build Cider, and that a lot of other people take it as well. It doesn't seem quite as exciting in the post devastate days, but I can see it being useful in trash clearing situations when you are changing targets frequently. Its boss fights, though, where spec min maxing is the most important, and I don't find myself sundering very often in most of those. What are people's overall thoughts about improved sunder right now?

[Wartorn]

It's a talent for 5mans and OTs.

[Armstrong]

I noticed that improved sunder is in your build Cider, and that a lot of other people take it as well. It doesn't seem quite as exciting in the post devastate days, but I can see it being useful in trash clearing situations when you are changing targets frequently. Its boss fights, though, where spec min maxing is the most important, and I don't find myself sundering very often in most of those. What are people's overall thoughts about improved sunder right now?

From the Devastate FAQ:

Since Devastate replaces Sunder Armor once 5 Sunders are applied, is there any value in speccing 3/3 Imp. Sunder Armor?

For grinding / DPS and tanking 5-man trash, definitely:

Imp. Sunder enables you to quickly apply 5 Sunders on an regular outdoor mob and use Devastate on it right away. Or in some cases, use the extra rage for a few Heroic Strikes or a bigger Execute. Sunder is also still a good "filler" ability when tanking trash mobs in 5-man instances, even if you never stack them up to five.

For raiding, it's a question of preference:

In a raid instance, if you're tanking something that will live long enough for you to have time to apply 5 Sunders to it, it's probably also hitting you so hard that spending the extra 15 rage at the beginning of the fight won't be an issue. However, in cases where establishing aggro quickly is key, the rage saved on the initial Sunders can be used to queue up simultaneous Heroic Strikes for more threat early on. This becomes even more meaninful on fights where the boss "dissapears" long enough for the Sunder debuff to wear off and aggro resets multiple times. Nightbane is a good example.

[Hello]

Should have specified everyone EXCEPT Armstrong haha, read the guide already and its great.