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    Tanking Perhaps this is just an issue with Thunder Clap...

    Perhaps this is just an issue with Thunder Clap not hitting hard enough anymore, or at level 80?

    Shockwave also has changed in that it is only hitting targets directly in front of you, instead of...
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    Tanking Thing is, first and foremost a tank's job is to...

    Thing is, first and foremost a tank's job is to hold aggro and take damage. I do not have any problems with something adding cool-factor through DPS, but to me there is more enjoyment out of a...
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    Tanking Vengeance, awkward?

    After some extensive playing at 80 after 4.0.1, it seems like Vengeance is not there when you need it the most. That being, at the beginning of a fight...when you're going through the motions to...
  4. Thread: Druid Preview

    by Vorps
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    Vengeance could always just remain active until...

    Vengeance could always just remain active until combat ends. It seems like Blizzard's way of making tanks deal more damage in PvE while making it difficult to do drastically more continual damage in...
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    Well, generally I think of silence as preventing...

    Well, generally I think of silence as preventing verbal sound. Since Warriors are not casters, I wouldn't think they'd need to speak to make a Thunder Clap. It makes sense for Taunt and shouts.
    ...
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    Not sure about the scope deal, but Thunder Clap...

    Not sure about the scope deal, but Thunder Clap is still silenced. Rather disappointing.

    Apparently covering someone's mouth makes it impossible for them to stomp the ground!
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    Warrior I actually have a Warrior and Druid in 264 gear....

    I actually have a Warrior and Druid in 264 gear. I'm not saying Warrior is a bad tank, just that the perceived 'squishiness' mentioned in the original post is likely due to Druids just being somewhat...
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    Warrior Hmm... I looked for a log with a Druid with...

    Hmm... I looked for a log with a Druid with highest threat on Marrowgar, not just taking Saberlash. Here's one from Exodus. Druid is now taking the least damage, with Warrior and Paladin taking more...
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    Warrior Problem is, cooldowns and blocks aren't...

    Problem is, cooldowns and blocks aren't guaranteed. When cooldowns are used or you take full hit(s), either by failing block checks or taking magical damage, Warrior in 3.3.3 is probably still the...
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    Warrior Regardless, I was curious. List of EH with...

    Regardless, I was curious. List of EH with cooldowns factored in. From minimum to maximum. Using base EH values from earlier in this thread.

    Physical (*~1.7 to factor armor)/Magical

    81,400 -...
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    Warrior Potentially... and then only for 10-12 seconds....

    Potentially... and then only for 10-12 seconds. Meanwhile, Ardent Defender can keep helping you survive more damage while Warrior abilities are cooling down.

    Honestly, I don't understand why you...
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    Warrior I do have the most updated Rawr. I went back and...

    I do have the most updated Rawr. I went back and made sure everything is checked and still getting same values as before. Regardless, it's not as huge of a difference one way or the other. Either...
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    Warrior You'd think so, right? I just re-compared...

    You'd think so, right? I just re-compared Paragon's Paladin against their Druid...

    Armor/HP Values(buffed in ICC):
    Lazeil - Paladin - 37,586 Armor, 63,620 HP
    Sejta - Druid - 38,197 Armor,...
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    Warrior Right, which is why I don't factor in...

    Right, which is why I don't factor in avoidance...because burst is taking a combination of hits generally. Effective health isn't about taking less damage, it's all about being able to survive more...
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    Warrior I factored in the damage reduction part of Ardent...

    I factored in the damage reduction part of Ardent Defender, not the protection from death.

    Avoidance and block don't protect you against burst all the time. Either if it is magical or your luck is...
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    Warrior From what I've seen it looks like in 3.3.3...

    From what I've seen it looks like in 3.3.3 Warrior and Paladin are in one tier of effective health; Blood DK and Druid are in another.

    Some quick and rough math just to back up this point. (This...
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    Fixed. If Revenge could proc from spells, oh...

    Fixed.

    If Revenge could proc from spells, oh those frost mage tears would taste sweeter than snow cones.

    I suppose you can always use a rogue to give a mage some revenge!
  18. Warrior Improved Revenge was actually updated again.......

    Improved Revenge was actually updated again.... it now gives +60% more damage for Revenge, and it causes Revenge to strike a nearby target for 50% of the main target's damage.

    Even more ridiculous...
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    I smell a change to Unrelenting Assault....

    I smell a change to Unrelenting Assault. :rolleyes:
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    Death Knight I totally agree there are other issues that are...

    I totally agree there are other issues that are not balanced either. Other tanks could definitely use some tweaks as well. The biggest I can think of off the top of my head is DKs not having an AP...
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    Death Knight 1) Sindragosa's Breath, Enraged Shambling...

    1) Sindragosa's Breath, Enraged Shambling Horrors... also, hits don't have to be one shots in order for EH to have significance. Take Soul Reaper, tanking two Shambling Horrors, 3 stack Festergut, or...
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    Death Knight Well I also think that Anub add tanking was...

    Well I also think that Anub add tanking was horribly unbalanced as well. As for all the other 'end bosses' I don't know what you're talking about. I don't remember any aside Anub'arak's adds where...
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    Death Knight Okay... I don't think that warrior's raid utility...

    Okay... I don't think that warrior's raid utility warrants them having less burst survival. Do you?

    Other tanks bring plenty of their own flavor of utility to raids. It shouldn't be considered...
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    Death Knight Until you're tanking something which has...

    Until you're tanking something which has potential to burst you dead...then EH is pretty up there in importance.

    I stated my numbers are rough, but the point remains. In that case all but warriors...
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    Death Knight I agree with this completely. So then, the...

    I agree with this completely.

    So then, the real question becomes...why is it alright for Druids, Paladins, and Death Knights to have superior survivability over Warriors? I don't buy popularity as...
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