Tank setups for Garrosh?
Question for folks who have downed Garrosh on Normal or better difficulty.
Short version: do you, in fact, divvy up the adds on one tank and the other tank has only Garrosh?
Our guild: We just made it to Garrosh for the first time this weekend, after having a really good week and downing Klaxxi and Thok for the first time. This ties us for server third (1H and 1A guild are working on Heroics, and the rest of us are at 13/14).
I've tanked LFR Garrosh before; I just sat in the middle with Garrosh and didn't really care about whether I had adds stuck to me or not. It was a lot like doing Windlord with add duty - just keep your AD going and you're fine.
On Normal, however, whoever is tanking Garrosh ends up with a bunch of Vengeance-glued adds off of the add tank if they're anywhere near them, and winds up taking horrific amounts of damage as a consequence. Strats say that there should be an add tank separate from Garrosh, but that add tank has their hands full trying to chase mobs down coming from two directions at once while Hamstrung constantly, which means since the adds aren't going down fast enough the add tank gets overwhelmed. If we put people on the adds, there's no damage on Garrosh, and we just got overrun eventually. We never got out of phase 1. But hey, first time we got to him, we shouldn't expect to down him the same night, right? ;)
My take on the matter is that the Garrosh tank should be able to take Garrosh + 3 adds, and use the extra Vengeance fueled cleave damage to help burn them down, and the numbers seemed to reflect that (550K dps from the tank on Garrosh+adds, 190 without) and that would leave the add tank with only 3 adds + 1 shaman to play with so you only have to cover one side.
I didn't get to try that strategy, however, since I was on add duty this week, and after healing the Garrosh+adds tank maneuver the healers didn't want to do it again that way with me in place of the other tank.
What are your raid teams doing? Is it just that our sum total DPS isn't high enough?
There's three ways to tank phase 1:
1) solo tank it. Have the OT help pick stuff up and interrupt the shaman but otherwise just let the MT tank it all. This will require some really good cooldown usage by the MT, especially during warsong.
2) 1 tank on boss, the other on adds... as much as possible. Similar to strat one, but the OT will constantly taunt off all adds as much as possible when warsong hits and just fight for as much aggro as possible. If you have a prot war they can use vigilance to infinite taunt adds off during a warsong (usually the 2nd).
3) Tank Swap: What this is is one tank starts off on the boss, builds vengeance, when the adds spawn, both tanks help pick up adds (which is really best for any scenario) but then then MT will AOE threat to get the adds, then when garrosh does his warsong to empower the adds, the OT (who before this should have no aggro on anything) taunts garrosh, and then its his/her turn to build up vengeance.
The 3rd is probably the most elegant, my guild used #2, mainly because I wasn't raid leading and tanks get threat epeen/damage happy sometimes and wanna see that 500k+ dps and don't care if the OT is floundering around 100k dps b/c he/she doesn't have threat on anything. I've done #1 before too in PuGs.
We just have the tank with the least adds taunt the boss. We don't have a dedicated "add tank".
We stack the entire raid in one spot in front of the throne, so the adds run into tank cleave (because that is where everybody is standing) and cleave them down. The weapon gets cleaved down within a few seconds. This way we never get a third Fiery Wheel of Death and Destruction, and we usually don't get a second. Just makes the fight a few seconds shorter. The adds are at low health or already dead when Warsong is cast.
We kill him without any adds in Phase 2 (he gets to 25 rage, but we trigger Phase 3 before the Empowered Whirlwind is cast) so that might not be viable for less geared groups (mostly above 565, quite a few above 570).
Running round after add shouldn't be a thing. If the MT tanks Garrosh in the center of the room and the ranged/healer group stay at the back of the room, we alternate between 2 points such that when a wave of adds spawn one side of them will have to run right over the main tank, meaning the OT only has to pick up three adds from the same side the Healer/range. and given that they adds have a long way to run, and you know where they will be heading (the healers) its not too hard to pick them up even with Hamstring, which you shouldn't really have if you're doing strat 2. and really you shouldn't have shammy and grunts up at the same time, since the shammy spawns right before the ironstar which should wipe out the adds.
Are you using knock-backs to kick the adds into the path of the Iron Stars? It deals about 40% of their maximum health.
we just have the tanks move far enough away to not be hit by close enough so anything trying to stay in melee range will be hit.
Interesting thought on reversing the fight positioning so that we're on the throne side rather than the balcony side... can people run up the stairs to the throne so everything has to come to the tanks?
Agg: We were trying #2 all night, and whoever was the OT kept having to fight the MT on Garrosh for the adds (8 second taunt cooldown is not a happy thing) -- we don't have a Warrior with infinite taunts, so you have an advantage over Double Bear Action there.
I was thinking about #3 this morning on the way to work, but that'd mean the healers would have to context switch pretty darn quickly as Garrosh hits whoever he's tanking pretty hard and right after the Warsong, so do the adds. But it would definitely mean both tanks are contributing more to the damage pool.
And I may try solo tanking Garrosh when the other tanks aren't around. (We just got our first Thok kill this week when I solo tanked it because our sub tank for the week had 535 gear.)
Our raid group is in the 540-555 range right now, and not at optimum since we're sending a DPS to kill the engineer, and three healing it. Is this supposed to be a 2 heal fight?
Yeah, we're kicking the adds into the Iron Star path as best as we can, but we're still in the 'learning curve' mode and getting a feel for the fight. The adds aren't dying fast enough since they spawn faster and faster, and without the tank damage on the adds at all that made it worse to my perception.
Back in a bit.
You can only solo tank Phase 1, you REALLY need 2 tanks for phase 2 and 3.
What exactly is the issue you're running in to on phase 1? Is it an issue that 1 tank is getting most of the aggro?
In flex you can solo-tank the whole fight, the debuff never goes above 10.
Well sure, I've done that in LFR too. But they're talking about normal mode where 10 stacks is probably not healer friendly, especially with 2 healers, and especially in phase 3.
Originally Posted by Fetzie
The issue here was that the MT would wind up with too many adds and bite the dust, and the Icy Veins strategy says 'one tank on Garrosh alone, one tank on adds.' so the RL had us try having the MT on Garrosh with zero AOE attacks, but then the adds weren't dying fast enough.
We were running Garrosh Normal for the first time. We started off with Garrosh in the dead center of the room, just south of where the right side Iron Star rolls by, and the plan was to kick the adds into the path of the star when it rolled by, since both tanks were druids and could Typhoon. Since I was on add duty that night, I'd start off on the right side, pick up the adds there and cross left through the MT's position to pick up the adds on the left. However, because we'd start the ranged and DPS on the southeast corner of the triangle formed by Garrosh and cross left on the first weapon, the adds coming in from the left would have healer aggro, and as the OT I'd have to chase down the ones on the healers (Charge works despite being snared) but that would leave my back exposed to the ones that were on me. And it would mean that the melee (DPS loadout: 3 melee, 2 ranged, with one ranged on the Engineer) weren't able to help get them down as fast, and so we'd get into a spiral where the next set of adds would show up before the first set were down, even when they got Typhooned properly.
We switched to 2 heals later in the night, but we've been three healing progression except on the early stuff, since our healers can brute force heal most things that don't have an enrage timer.
I do, but in order not to waste anyone's time on them I've catalogued which ones are of interest, like 'don't bother looking at #1 since half of us got eaten by the Iron Star since we didn't have the range down right, and one of the other ones the 'lock assigned to taking care of the other star lagged out so we got run over both ways. :)
ETA: Okay, here we go. Read with the big caveat 'first time on this fight ever and not in LFR'.
Attempts #4 and #6 are Elebez on Garrosh and AoEing indiscriminately on adds. She winds up taking some of them off of me and eating the floor. Thankfully(?) she has the Niuzao cloak but you can see it going off there multiple times during the fight.
#7 and #8 are Elebez on Garrosh with no AoE and me on add duty.
#9 is where we switched tank roles (Elebez is now the add tank and I'm on Garrosh) and I still had AoE muscle memory in my rotation, so I hit it a few times and wound up pulling off of her.
#11 and #13 is where I finally just took Thrash and Swipe off of my bar altogether.
The rest of the logs aren't relevant as we'd die within the first minute or so due to random things happening.
Imo: try strat 3.Also, I'm of the opinion that 3 healing garrosh makes it harder.
Yeah, I think we'll try that if/when we get back there again. I'm thinking having both tanks with a giant vengeance buff might make the adds go down faster, and we can do one tank facing the left to pick up the adds coming from that direction and the other dragging in the ones from the right.
From the damage that the tanks are taking collectively, though, I don't know that two heals can keep them both up, though (they can't two heal Galakras yet, for example) But if the adds die faster, then the damage won't be as bad in theory.
In the logs, try #14 is where we went to two heals, but it didn't end well (it was also the last try of the night, so, grain of salt) as the add tank died first again.
From all 3 strategies I found number 2 (sometimes going to number 1 :)) the most simple. The main point is to pick up the adds correctly. They are always heading to the side points of the horseshoe picture on the floor at the beginning. So the tank with the boss takes the adds from the right side and the other tank - from the left. Then the adds are brought together to the middle (or a bit the healers side - they should reach us, you know :)) and destroyed.
This way it brings some order to the add phase and you don't have to chase the adds from the both sides all over the room.
To survive under Garosh and adds together is to use active mitigation (as much as possilble) and defensive cooldowns after every Warsong (it happens every 40-45 seconds, so for Warriors, for example, it goes like Demoshout after the 1st, Shieldwall after the 2nd, Demoshout again after the 3d). And never ever showing your back to the enemies (or they will finish you in 2 sec).
The Iron Star goes to the middle like 6 seconds from the moment DBM ends the countdown. So it gives some time even to stun the adds (eg stun from the warriors' Shockwave is 4 sec) before moving away to the safe spot - the high point of the horseshoe on the floor (if you use the Iron Star near the throne).
Using the trinket from the Protectors after the Iron Star pass the middle also helps. And panic buttons ofc, if the healers are busy with someone else.
Hope it will help, sorry not to mention any bears abilities - know nothing about them :(
Your co-tanks active mitigation on the last attempt really do seem lacking 2 FRs for 52k and 5 SDs thats not even 2.5rps spent. I really don't think that's fair to the healers.
Also what's with the lack of Enrages? and why are you using the DPS cloak/LMGs? I get that you bears can whore up the DPS with them, but if tanks death is a thing you should be using the tanky things. I'm not surprised you can't 2 heal it, your tanks are DPS whoring. The melee cloak may also explain why you're having issues over add aggro.
No Stormlash? you've got 3 shammies, you could have it up every minute, it may not seem like much but its DPE is redonkulous, over 2 million
As a sidenote, the fight is solo-tankable on 10-HC, provided you can survive the huge explosion at P3 :P