PST - Episode 116

This week:
0:22 - If server transfers should be free, what about the other paid services like faction changes?
3:31 - Is patch 5.2 releasing too soon?
8:48 - Why do some players just refuse to use tools that can help them?
11:16 - Will the new LFR buff cause groups to wipe on purpose to activate it?
13:56 - Is Blizzard going to make LFR more difficult now that the buff is in place?
16:53 - What's the purpose for elixirs nowadays?
20:04 - Would the idea of a "pure tank" or "pure healing" class work in WoW?
25:16 - At what point should we move from T14 into T15 if we're not already clearing everything?

Great fast talking and only one brain freeze :) heaps of helpful info

With regards to the RF buff, I believe there will be good reasons to deliberately wipe almost regardless of steps Blizzard could take - e.g. extending the respawn time.

You join RF and find you have a bad group. It takes three wipes before you get the first boss down.

What do you do on the second boss?

Waste time getting him to 40%, 25% and 5% before finally wiping enough times and getting a large enough buff to clear it?

Or simply say "this group is bad, if you are going to wipe three times lets do it after 30 seconds of combat as opposed to 8 minutes.

I don't really see how Blizzard could fix that (or make RF harder as per the follow up question) as the better half of players in RF simply wouldn't stomach wasting time on "no hope" attempts at the boss. Better to AFK and watch TV during the first few attempts or simply give up and stop running RF period.

What can Blizz do? Give the boss a 10 minute respawn time!? Force the group to waste 8 minutes getting it down to 10% before a wipe activates the buff (assuming the group can even do that)?

That is why the buff can never be used as a factor in the tuning. The demographic playing in RF, and in particular the good members, have no interest in encounters where they know regardless of how well they play, they are doomed to having unavoidable deaths due to factors completely outside their control.

Make RF very easy and the bad half AFK.

Make RF harder and buff dependent and the good half will AFK too. The intolerance will likely grow worse as each week passes.

Can't see that really being an issue. The dominant reason for wiping in the first couple of weeks is people not knowing what to do rather than an inordinate number of people AFK'ing. People figuring out the mechanics from a wipe is the more significant factor than a small buff. Beyond that point, people aren't going to be motivated to build up the buff in most cases because it will be faster (and likely) to just kill the boss the first time.

I think you made the mistake of assuming that the wipes reduced in number in 5.0 because people learned the tactics.

In reality it was because Blizzard severely nerfed the encounters although granted Elegon is an exception. I still see the same fails occurring now as I did at the start of the tier such as failing to interrupt on Amber Shaper and standing in the wrong spots on Garalon. Despite the improvements in gear I am still seeing very low outputs (presumably alts).

The best example are the 4.0 Heroics - even in the final month of Cataclysm groups were still wiping because players failed to dance in and out of Corla's beams. This was despite the LOTD buff that was stepped up quite early on in the expansion. They don't tend to learn!

I think with regards to your final point, you didn't consider the example I gave. If it took three wipes to kill the first boss then it is highly likely that you will not be able to clear the second boss on the first attempt. The question then is whether you deliberately wipe after 30 seconds or plug away for 8 minutes just to wipe at 10%.

I may be wrong. You may be right. Groups may still give it a serious attempt. I won't, I will be dropping. Luxury of being a healer!

On the subject of Elixirs, I did use them in Cata as a prot pally to CTC cap. The 225 mastery (plus an armor elixir) was worth doing instead of stacking on some more stamina at the time. I gave up doing that at some point during Cata where I had gained enough wiggle room on my gear's stats to not worry about it.

But at this point, I agree with Lore. They seem to be useless in this expansion so far.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Toypop

I think you made the mistake of assuming that the wipes reduced in number in 5.0 because people learned the tactics.

In reality it was because Blizzard severely nerfed the encounters although granted Elegon is an exception. I still see the same fails occurring now as I did at the start of the tier such as failing to interrupt on Amber Shaper and standing in the wrong spots on Garalon. Despite the improvements in gear I am still seeing very low outputs (presumably alts).

The best example are the 4.0 Heroics - even in the final month of Cataclysm groups were still wiping because players failed to dance in and out of Corla's beams. This was despite the LOTD buff that was stepped up quite early on in the expansion. They don't tend to learn!

I think with regards to your final point, you didn't consider the example I gave. If it took three wipes to kill the first boss then it is highly likely that you will not be able to clear the second boss on the first attempt. The question then is whether you deliberately wipe after 30 seconds or plug away for 8 minutes just to wipe at 10%.

I may be wrong. You may be right. Groups may still give it a serious attempt. I won't, I will be dropping. Luxury of being a healer!

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People wiped on a lot more than just Elegon and Garalon at release, and Garalon is the only encounter that was nerfed to any noticeable degree.

I think the RF is still going to come down to a lucky dip on whether a large enough group of Norm/Heroic raiders happen (either by accident or design) to join a RF queue and can subsequently drag the rest of the group through. This still occurs now to a certain extent as I still see the occasional Terrace wipe here and there.

The other option could be to perhaps work it the other way. Have the buff (and a shortened respawn rate) in the first couple of weeks of RF release to allow groups to get the bosses cleared and get some upgrades then drop the buff off (or decrease the respawn rate).

This would:

a) Keep the content on par with gearing (of both casuals or f/t raiders) and,
b) Reduce the incentive to intentionally wipe later in release

May not work, but hey just a random thought....

What you said about flasks and elixirs in TBC doesn't make any sense. Elixirs were better than flasks but didn't persist through death, so people used flasks (the weaker buff) for progression (where they would need the better buff), and then switched to elixirs (the stronger buff) for farm content (where they didn't need as strong of a buff). It just doesn't make sense, progression is where you'd get the most benefit from the stronger buff, while farm content you could probably do without them. It would be like saying "we're still progressing on this encounter so we're not going to use any food/feasts, because we want to save them for when we're not wiping anymore".

Not saying that that was or wasn't the mentality back in TBC, I wasn't raiding (or playing) back then, but if that's really how people thought it didn't make any sense at all. At least not from today's raiding mentality.

We didn't use 275 feasts while learning this tier for the same reason. Top end consumables are expensive and time consuming to produce. Why waste them on a night of wipes.