PST - Episode 110

This week:
1:40 - How memorable will Tier 14 be?
7:02 - Would adding a penalty to reforging make the system more interesting?
11:50 - How much do I need to spend to get a PC that runs WoW well?
16:41 - Will Blizzard try to push people to stop playing WoW when Titan releases?
20:49 - How do you feel about talents that directly affect your rotation?
27:08 - Now that we have LFD and LFR, should attunements be brought back?
33:57 - Is it a good idea to force PvE players into PvP for the 5.2 legendary?
40:29 - Is it better to buy valor pieces if you're only running LFR?

The 2 battleground are in the 5.1 legendary chains.
and it is 2 specific battlegrounds.
and i hated it...

Regarding the point you're making around the 30:00 mark ... I remember spamming trade LFG - Jail Break.

I think you're right on with making it a scenario activity to open attunement. IF blizz wanted to walk down that road again.

The other thing about rings and necks - iLevel 489 pieces in these slots are available from the final quests at Exalted for Klaxxi and Golden Lotus without the need for any VP spend. Better to grind out exalted (you're already at least Revered, right?) than to burn VP.

Anyone running LFR "has access to" an iLevel 483 item in each slot, but the chances are they've not dropped in each slot yet. We have a small chance that each boss will drop something each week, and then on the rare occasions it does an even chance it won't be the item we want it to be. There's going to be a lot of people who've run LFR each and every week, and burned charms, and still not filled every slot with iLevel 483 purples. It's one thing to math out that 483 + buying upgrade > buying 489, but quite another thing when people only running LFR probably still have 463 blues in some slots. For those people, buying the 489 now is a lot more appealing than hoping RNG will finally drop the missing epics.

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Originally Posted by Gahad

The other thing about rings and necks - iLevel 489 pieces in these slots are available from the final quests at Exalted for Klaxxi and Golden Lotus without the need for any VP spend. Better to grind out exalted (you're already at least Revered, right?) than to burn VP.

Anyone running LFR "has access to" an iLevel 483 item in each slot, but the chances are they've not dropped in each slot yet. We have a small chance that each boss will drop something each week, and then on the rare occasions it does an even chance it won't be the item we want it to be. There's going to be a lot of people who've run LFR each and every week, and burned charms, and still not filled every slot with iLevel 483 purples. It's one thing to math out that 483 + buying upgrade > buying 489, but quite another thing when people only running LFR probably still have 463 blues in some slots. For those people, buying the 489 now is a lot more appealing than hoping RNG will finally drop the missing epics.

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In general it's better to upgrade. Spending VP to get to 470 so you can run the second half of LFR to me is a good spend, because it opens up the possibility of upgrades sooner. There are also a few exceptions like Plate int bracers that don't have a boss drop at the 483 level. In this case spending 1250 VP to get to 489 from the 463 dungeon bracers or even the 476 RF ones would be a better return on investment than upgrading (assuming you can live without the spirit). I'm sure other classes have similar holes in their loot table that may be better filled with VP gear. However, you need to research that to find out and those situations are rare.

The concept of using VP to fill a slot that RNG has been unkind to you is a different one. Upgrading being better is actually contingent on RNG filling all your gear slots with a 483 piece, which is far from realistic given the current loot system in LFR I would argue that taking the RNG out of the situation and replacing a 463 with a 489 VP piece is an acceptable choice being that in the long run doing so might cost you one upgrade down the road, I think it's worth the gamble. I do how ever encourage not making the choice til being Valor capped forces you to. We all know the minute you give up on something dropping it drops that week ;).

Always cracks me up to read over the 'menu' for PST after enjoying a good ramble or rant from Lore, I add the short answers in my head:

1:40 - How memorable will Tier 14 be? - Not very
7:02 - Would adding a penalty to reforging make the system more interesting? - No
11:50 - How much do I need to spend to get a PC that runs WoW well? - About $600
16:41 - Will Blizzard try to push people to stop playing WoW when Titan releases? - No, and dont be ridiculous
20:49 - How do you feel about talents that directly affect your rotation? - Good within moderation. Oh and Lore likes Paladins
27:08 - Now that we have LFD and LFR, should attunements be brought back? - No
33:57 - Is it a good idea to force PvE players into PvP for the 5.2 legendary? - No
40:29 - Is it better to buy valor pieces if you're only running LFR? - No, unless they are from the 5.1 rep vendors

while you can get a great new processor for cheap, if your computer is so old that it struggles to run wow at a high setting then chances are if you buy a new processor you will also need a new motherboard, new ram and a new case, and possibly a new graphics card depending on the slots on your new motherboard.

A cheap dell may be the way to go.

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Originally Posted by Gahad

The other thing about rings and necks - iLevel 489 pieces in these slots are available from the final quests at Exalted for Klaxxi and Golden Lotus without the need for any VP spend. Better to grind out exalted (you're already at least Revered, right?) than to burn VP.

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Free stuff is always good. :P

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Originally Posted by Gahad

Anyone running LFR "has access to" an iLevel 483 item in each slot, but the chances are they've not dropped in each slot yet. We have a small chance that each boss will drop something each week, and then on the rare occasions it does an even chance it won't be the item we want it to be. There's going to be a lot of people who've run LFR each and every week, and burned charms, and still not filled every slot with iLevel 483 purples. It's one thing to math out that 483 + buying upgrade > buying 489, but quite another thing when people only running LFR probably still have 463 blues in some slots. For those people, buying the 489 now is a lot more appealing than hoping RNG will finally drop the missing epics.

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Ok, let's say you got yourself a 483 head and are still using shoulders from a HC (probably 471 thanks to JP upgrades). You have 2 choices:

- Upgrade the head from 483 to 491.
- "Upgrade" the shoulders from 471 to 489, by buying a new piece.

In this case, upgrading the shoulders nets you a grant total of 18 ilvls, which is definitely better than the head upgrade. The question here is: What are you going to use it for?

If you're desperately trying to reach ilvl 470 so you can do more LFR, then yes, go buy yourself a new pair of shoulders. If not, upgrade the head. And here's why:

If all you do is LFR, then you left a piece from which you can get upgrades. For all you know your shoulders could drop next week, and then they're worthless because you have the valor shoulders. Since you are already clearing the instance, upgrading the better pieces, and hope that the weaker pieces will be replaced, will be better in the long run.

If you raid as well, there are very likely better items to upgrade than that LFR helmet, but even if you've been very unlucky, the same still applies. If you have 483 head and 489 shoulders, then they're both minor upgrades to 496. Do you spend your DKP/coins on that? On both slots? If you have a 491 head and 471 shoulders, your head is quite ok, and you only need to focus on your shoulders, being able to burn some DKP/coins on them, since you won't be needing them for the headpiece.

Instead of attunement quests, I would like to see the return of some of the more specific quests from Vanilla. I'm not talking about MC/BWL/Ony attunements.

What about the Paladin/Warlock mount quests?
What about the Druid shapeshift quests?
What about the Tier 0.5 questlines? In my opinion still the most interesting questline they put in the game, unfortunately gone nowadays. I found that a lot cooler than grinding JP/VP, walking up to a vendor and saying "Upgrade this, please!"
What about the Benediction quest?
What about the Atiesh quest that took you into Stratholme?

The focus was not on "You have to do this quest in order to continue to that part of the game, and if you don't do it, you won't be able to raid." but "If you want to go and do this entire questline, we'll have a special reward for you at the end."

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Originally Posted by Gahad

Anyone running LFR "has access to" an iLevel 483 item in each slot, but the chances are they've not dropped in each slot yet. We have a small chance that each boss will drop something each week, and then on the rare occasions it does an even chance it won't be the item we want it to be. There's going to be a lot of people who've run LFR each and every week, and burned charms, and still not filled every slot with iLevel 483 purples. It's one thing to math out that 483 + buying upgrade > buying 489, but quite another thing when people only running LFR probably still have 463 blues in some slots. For those people, buying the 489 now is a lot more appealing than hoping RNG will finally drop the missing epics.

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Right, but even 4 items will keep you occupied for a month and a half (6000 valor). When you're at the point where you only need 3 or 4 more items and they're just not dropping, you've still got 12 other slots to be upgrading. That's 18000 valor. That's 4 and a half months. You don't need an ilevel 483 in every slot, you just need a 483 that hasn't been upgraded yet.

If you don't have a 483 yet, it's better to save your valor and hope for one next week. If you run out of 483s to upgrade AND you're going to hit the 3000 valor cap, then it makes sense to buy a valor piece. But at that point, you should be buying a 496 from the 5.1 reps anyway, like I said in the show.

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Originally Posted by Thels

Instead of attunement quests, I would like to see the return of some of the more specific quests from Vanilla. I'm not talking about MC/BWL/Ony attunements.

What about the Paladin/Warlock mount quests?
What about the Druid shapeshift quests?
What about the Tier 0.5 questlines? In my opinion still the most interesting questline they put in the game, unfortunately gone nowadays. I found that a lot cooler than grinding JP/VP, walking up to a vendor and saying "Upgrade this, please!"
What about the Benediction quest?
What about the Atiesh quest that took you into Stratholme?

The focus was not on "You have to do this quest in order to continue to that part of the game, and if you don't do it, you won't be able to raid." but "If you want to go and do this entire questline, we'll have a special reward for you at the end."

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Couldn't agree more, despite being a warlock, I don't give a hoot about green fire. I just hope the questline paves the way for proper, good ol' class quests and the like.

Ehm on the 2 bg's for 5.1 prismatic socket.. It took me around 5 hours to win 2 bg's(in PvP gear), my faction just sucked that day.. But on the flipside the getting to revered with black prince took me around 30-45 mins as a mage.

Not sure how getting revered with Wrathion was a pain, considering if you did the 5.1 content, you were well past revered by the end.

The BGs were for the 5.1 quests, not 5.2 (which we still know nothing about really, though some legendary token items were found this patch). They went fine for me in my pure raid gear, I just had to play knowing I was squishier, guarding others and waiting until I could burst the hell out of someone. They weren't easy games, but neither really punishes you for not having PvP gear.

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Originally Posted by jacobwx77

The 2 battleground are in the 5.1 legendary chains.
and it is 2 specific battlegrounds.
and i hated it...

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^This tbh!

Ignoring the fact that bots is an issue in bg's in general, and the overwhelming lack of communication / team play in bg's!

I can't stand LFR for the simple fact of the amount of directly bad players, and the amount of leeches.
I don't PvP at all, and haven't done since Tbc because it's not appealing to me at all, I can only imagine real PvP players getting the same feeling about me being put in a battleground for the legendary, as I show with 0 PvP items and no real motivation as to what the outcome will be of the fight for all of the above!

It's also entirely possible that I'll just opt out of the legendary in 5.2, because I do not like or even remotely enjoy participating in something where I'm more a ball n' chain around a teams ankles.
I can play my classes to a high degree, but not having any PvP gear already puts you at a significant disadvantage as well as hindrance on your team!

I didn't read this question the way you did. Ability creep is a relevant point, but he asked specifically about situations where talent A is designed to be better than talent B, but makes the rotation more clunky or harder. From a feral perspective, the only talent i know is the "Dream of Cenarius" talent. It increases the damage on my next two melee abilities after i use a Healing Touch. As feral i have a chance of making spells free, instant and castable in all forms (Predatory Switness, also the same talent that makes cyclone so easy to use as feral). This means Healing Touch now becomes a rotational ability, and it means I must plan when to use it to get the most effect out of it. Naturally I want to get a 25% boost to my most damaging abilities whenever possible. For optimal use I should also select a target for the healing (which is not insignificant btw, 70-100k or so per cast)

This talent is also just plain better than the other two in the tier, and it appears it was designed that way. For the cost of watching for an extra proc, plan when to use it, and an extra button on the action bar, you get rewarded with slightly higher damage output and just under 10k hps on targets you select.

This sounds alot like the topic discussed before MoP, doesn't it? With talents giving players a choice between an easy mode and a hard mode rotation. I was a sceptic before, but it seems it works out. People selecting the two other options in the talent tree are not frowned upon, perhaps because the rotation is a fairly complex one to begin with. Or because feral druids are just awesome people :p

Added to the patch notes for 5.2 this morning:

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The cost of Valor Point gear introduced in patch 5.0 has been reduced by 50%.
The cost of Valor Point gear introduced in patch 5.1 has been reduced by 25%.

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Originally Posted by Nagassh

Couldn't agree more, despite being a warlock, I don't give a hoot about green fire. I just hope the questline paves the way for proper, good ol' class quests and the like.

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Even though you might not care about the green fire, you got a questline to follow, which is interesting on it's own, so I envy you somewhat.

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Originally Posted by Fetzie

Added to the patch notes for 5.2 this morning:

The cost of Valor Point gear introduced in patch 5.0 has been reduced by 50%.
The cost of Valor Point gear introduced in patch 5.1 has been reduced by 25%.

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Hmm, so much for valor items being converted to justice items.

I can understand that they're not converting them over. If they would, then post 5.2, every freshly dinged 90 should farm the heck out of dailies to get revered with all factions at the same time, so he can buy all the items.

However, that also means it'll be a lot harder to catch up to the current content.

I am curious about retaining old VP items as VP items but at a reduced cost. They've hinted that new VP items may be gated behind 5.2 raiding rep.

If the gating is strict (like Firelands, so only real raiders get it), then the LFR players/alts will be left rather aggrieved, with only obsolete gear to buy, albeit at discount prices. The endgame for 5.0 and 5.1 - at least for alts and casuals - seems all about the VPs, so giving you no new shinies to buy with them would be demotivating and perverse.

If the gating is loose (so LFR gives you it), then I doubt people would buy the old VP stuff. With my alts, I fixate on item level and so prioritise the Shieldwall stuff, however imperfectly itemised. No way would I spend scarce alt VPs on something that was tuned for obsolete raids if there was an alternative use. (And no way would I run old LFRs on alts if there was anyway by hook or crook I could get into current ones.)

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However, that also means it'll be a lot harder to catch up to the current content.

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It does, however, mean that you can start to buy VP items in your first week of being level 90, instead of in the second.

Well what I'm reading into this is the crafters now have a use to craft all that beginner PVP gear again as it'll probably sell out quick. WOOT!

I mean I used to run Tol'Barad over and over again with no PVP gear on. Sometimes we won sometimes we lost. I don't see this becoming a huge issue. Of course the QQ'rs will hop on the forums and go bonkers over it. But in the end I don't seeing this as a game stopper by any means.