The Weekly Marmot - What's Wrong With Rep?

I wonder what the serve economy would have been like if, instead of the 10-15 dailies granting 150 rep each, they gave 50 rep, but if you did them all, you got a BoE rep token worth 1000 reputation, preferably a daily hand in like the Nat Pagle fish. (Or each quest giving a Skyshard-like item, combine 10 to create the rep token?)

Casual players would then be able to sell those tokens for gold on AH, and raiders or solo-playstyle grinders that prefer farming over dailies would be able to get atleast a feasable amount of rep per day without having to forcably do all those quests just for the sake of the rep.

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Originally Posted by Knighterrant81

So really, LW, BS, and Tailoring have to only do about a week's worth of either the Golden Lotus or the Klaxxi (the bag pattern is NOT going to make your raid kill bosses faster), and every other profession isn't concerned with reputation at all.

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Actually, I have Honored with Klaxxi just from finishing the zone. Zero dailies. Much quicker than a week or two, too.

Honored with Golden Lotus isn't bad either. As pointed out, enchanting is the one tied to the reps, but, it's only six enchants, 3 to weapons, 3 to bracers, and those aren't going to make or break your raiding. (If they do, you're not as good as you think you are.)

Dailies are antisocial ...
We are not a hard core guild and dailies are getting in the way of our guild running content together to gear people to raid. Also no one is leveling alts. Not everyone can play every day so an answer could be ... weekly quests. There seem to be 2-4 sets of quests at each hub. Suppose you made all available but you can only do them once per week (the rep numbers could be tweaked per quest (x2 probably)). This would let people schedule better and would allow the quest to be run as guild groups.

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Originally Posted by Banzhe

Out of I don't know how many Weekly Marmots, this was an utter waste of time tbh!

Listening to you Lore asking developers to give more of the "everyone is a winner" made me crinche! What's next?- someone not being able to raid for 1 day and then he automatically gets the achievement and loot from X boss he missed anyway *facepalms*

Why not completely remove factions while their at it, or even better to fit yours and everyone else with "no time".., let normal vendors sell valor gear for gold, all of which is BoE.

Hell, lets also scrap raiding while we're at it.., let it all be LFR junk mode so everyone can win and feel like a champion of retards, lets also introduce the option for pre.made lvl 90 characters with BiS hc dungeon gear, and if they choose to enter LFR, let their gear scale to max capacity to ensure a crashing victory.., everything you've rambled on about in this episode is Cataclysm all over!

Then it really becomes the age of log on, do squat, log off.. Loss of customers to other games. Get some sense of reality back into yourself man, this episode was an embarrassment..!

What they should do, is this: ..|.. to all you kids asking for fastfood game content, go play some facebook, pacman, tetris.., w/e

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You managed to miss my point entirely

Spend less time fuming about how I said something you didn't like and more time listening to what I'm actually saying. I have no issues with doing work outside of raiding -- I WANT to have work to do outside of raiding. Dailies just don't make a good way to implement that.

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Originally Posted by Lore

You managed to miss my point entirely

Spend less time fuming about how I said something you didn't like and more time listening to what I'm actually saying. I have no issues with doing work outside of raiding -- I WANT to have work to do outside of raiding. Dailies just don't make a good way to implement that.

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Anytime someone uses these massive slippery slope arguments to imply that doing something unfun should be a badge of honor, I disregard the argument all-together. I guess you are a bigger man than me Lore to even respond to this guy. Simply by trying to make his point the way he did, he neither made his point nor earned the right for me to attempt to determine what his point actually was.

I think the rep awarded per Golden Lotus daily was a bit low coupled with starting GL at neutral made it feel really grindy, also gating GL to get you to AC and SP added to that "I have to do this every day" feeling. In retrospect, I took a couple days off the GL grind and Lore was right it didn't make a difference. The other grindy factor for GL is the constant "kill 12 of these", "kill 8 of those" quests. They do go faster if you group, but still....

I thought Kalaxxi went by just fine, especially since you didn't have to start at neutral, smaller hill to climb.

The Tillers, I just plain have fun with; got exalted today and it just seemed to breeze by and my hunter will get revered tomorrow so he can farm Motes of Harmony. The Anglers is fine since the quests are short and sweet.

At least the patch will help with alts, double the rep if you have revered character.

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Originally Posted by sifuedition

Anytime someone uses these massive slippery slope arguments to imply that doing something unfun should be a badge of honor, I disregard the argument all-together. I guess you are a bigger man than me Lore to even respond to this guy. Simply by trying to make his point the way he did, he neither made his point nor earned the right for me to attempt to determine what his point actually was.

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If I was a bigger man, I probably wouldn't have responded and just left him to it :P I'm just getting tired of hearing "LORE JUST WANTS FREE EPICS" because I don't like how something is implemented.

ITT: Lore just wants free epics.

I will end you

^^ wanna watch this.

I has coffee. How long till the show starts?

Popcorn?

My problems with dailies are a bit different and I'm not sure how common they are. I really don't mind a limited number of dailies if they are well done - unfortunately the golden lotus ones are not at least on my server. I intentionally moved to an extremely crowded server because during the majority of the expansion it is extraordinarily difficult to fit a raid guild and/or pugs into a schedule when the pool of players is so limited. Even on a large server I don't feel like the pug/guild creation pool is large enough, but then when it comes time for dailies there are just way too many people. I have started getting up before work early in the morning to do these just because it is such a nightmare to try to do them during primetime. Most of the dailies degenerate into camping a single spawn point so you can tag the rare mobs you need within 1-2 seconds - any longer than that and one of the (literally) 20-30 people in the same area will have tagged them. Had the dailies been better designed it wouldn't have felt so miserable - instead I end up dodging hundreds of the big Mogu guys (since I only need to kill 12) to try to get the incredibly rare spirits (since I need to kill 30).

The other issue I have with dailies I feel is systemic and should/could be fixed. Just as with Molten front I'm going to end up doing the initial Golden Lotus dailies way too much. The third (and if there is a fourth) tier dailies probably wont be bad at all in terms of repetition. The solution should be to either deprecate the first tier once you hit the third (and fold the rep you would get from the first tier into the third) or at least inflate the amount of rep you get in the higher tiers and not require going through the first 2 tiers to get to them. There is no reason why I should be doing the tier1 dailies 30-40 times and the tier3 ones 10 times - spreading out the number of times they get done to balance them would lead to less drudgery.

Oh, and please add something NOW to ease doing rep (or at least Golden Lotus) on alts. Thats not a 'lets wait a few months' type of thing.

http://blogmosaic.files.wordpress.co...-a-barrel1.jpg

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Originally Posted by tawnos

Oh, and please add something NOW to ease doing rep (or at least Golden Lotus) on alts. Thats not a 'lets wait a few months' type of thing.

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I agree. I'm parking my alts who hit 90 (expect for Tiller dailies) until the doulble rep for having one revered toon with the specific faction takes place. I wish they'd just impliment it.

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Originally Posted by sifuedition

Anytime someone uses these massive slippery slope arguments to imply that doing something unfun should be a badge of honor, I disregard the argument all-together. I guess you are a bigger man than me Lore to even respond to this guy. Simply by trying to make his point the way he did, he neither made his point nor earned the right for me to attempt to determine what his point actually was.

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It was actually this exact mindset that burned me out on the game, initially. I used to pride myself in how much "unfun" stuff I had accomplished with the goal of being able to prove that I was a "dedicated raider." But, that's back when I was a guild leader, raid leader and used to play the game for 40+ hours per week...

Now, after returning on a much more casual basis (and getting a real job!), I've made a conscious effort to avoid things that I don't find to be entertaining. Although recently I've been getting the urge to raid again and I realize there will be some things that aren't necessarily the the most entertaining of tasks, that I may need to do to accomplish that. I'm OK with that, because raiding on a higher level has always required some effort outside of the dungeon. But at the same time, that doesn't mean I actually want to grind dailies every single day. Give me something that is at least mildly entertaining and not mind-numbingly repetitive. :/

There's a fine line between something being "unfun" but worthwhile in the end (Wiping isn't "fun" by some peoples standards, nor is losing in PvP, but both are part of a larger picture of enjoyment.) and something just being a stupid timesink that isn't entertaining, enjoyable, or anything of that sort.

Too much daily grinding tends to fall into the latter category. There's no challenge, there's no success/failure conditions to worry about, there's no "big picture" fun, it's just the game telling you that the cost of your advancement is X amount of minutes and nothing more.

Dailies just bring out the worst in us - mob tagging, darting to nodes to pick something up before the other guy, having to wait a minute for some mini-boss to respawn because it was just killed... and I'm guilty of all these things too mind. I'm the first person to toss a DoT on a mob that I know someone is targeting and winding up on, knowing that I'll get the tag, but he'll end up with aggro and end up having to kill it for me anyway. They're dreary and repetitive and I'm impatient and want to be done with them as soon as possible - overall it just adds frustration on top of what is already a chore to begin with. Dailies are just a bad form of content.

That isn't even the worst part of these particular dailies IMO - I'm not bothered by the dailies being the only source of rep, or the rep requirements on valor gear - I hate the dailies because they aren't rewarding. I'd wish considerably less pain and suffering on Blizz employees if there wasn't the weekly VP cap, or you earned VP at 50% or some such above cap. Heck if I at least earned JP from the dailies after the cap, I'd still be able to convert that to honor and work on my PvP set simultaneously. Or just give me some Iron paw tokens after I cap out on valor so I don't have to do dailies and then also have to go farm turtles mindlessly for an hour. Right now, once you cap VP for the week, the only thing the dailies give are the lesser charms and you can only use 90 of those a week - I'm sitting on 900 something having not missed a day of the bloody things - it doesn't feel rewarding at all and really brings the grind into sharp focus.

Add the bugs with some of the dailies on top of this (broken Kuchong cages with the Klaxxi, Guo-Lai being phased for the Battle-Helm quest preventing you from seeing the mob you needed to kill for the end Golden Lotus quest unless you grouped, trouble with interacting with objects...) and of course Blizz is facing people howling loudly on the forums. Heck, I reported some of these bugs during beta and they did diddly-squat to fix them so of course I'm irritated when Blues post about how they read the forums every day and value our feedback.

Lore, in your Weekly Marmot titled "Reputation Dailies," you came to the conclusion that the rep gear was optional content for people who don't or can't get into raiding. I don't understand why this week you've changed your opinion.

If someone does not like dailies, wouldn't their progression path be Heroics > Tier 14 raids? Isn't VP gear really for the non-raider or a supplement for those who enjoy dailies?

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Originally Posted by spaceghost7117

Lore, in your Weekly Marmot titled "Reputation Dailies," you came to the conclusion that the rep gear was optional content for people who don't or can't get into raiding. I don't understand why this week you've changed your opinion.

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That is not the conclusion I came to at all.