# Harsh Words and Steel: A Protection Warrior Guide

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• 09-15-2012, 02:28 PM
kebess
Quote:

Originally Posted by Tengenstein
If we don't have a second revenge proc it defualts to what Quietsch responded originally.

Hum, I really don't see how we could be getting more RPS if we don't get that second Revenge.

Shout doesn't delay anything since, we are not getting that second Revenge to begin with. In fact, in that exact scenario, Revenge would be the one delaying Shout instead.
• 09-15-2012, 02:49 PM
kebess
Quote:

Originally Posted by Quietsch
/e btw: We actually don't need this second consecutive proc (at least in some cases). Revenge has a cd. And thus, sometimes, it's available even without avoiding.

True. So if we don't have that second Rev, in the best case scenario, we could have something like this :

Over 8 GCD's :

A: SS-Rev-St-Dev-SS-Dev-Dev-Rev => 90 guaranteed Rage

VS

B: SS-St-Rev-Dev-SS-Dev-Dev-Dev => 75 guaranteed Rage

But over 2 GCD's, we have this :

A: SS-Rev = 35 Rage

VS

B: SS-St = 40 Rage

So in the end, A in the 8 GCD cycle would provide 15 more Rage, in the end if you can actually wait for that long.

While B in the first 2 GCDs would provide 5 more Rage, if you can't wait for that long.

It's indeed very close, ; ) And really depends on how badly you need that extra 5 Rage, I guess. A would be better on average thus.

All in all, I'm satisfied with this answer. Thanks for the response.
• 09-15-2012, 02:51 PM
Tengenstein
It's not about exact scenarios though, it's about "on average" what should be done,
If you used Shouts on CD you get 20 rage every 60s or 0.333rps, if you delay it by a GCD you get 20 rage every 61.5 seconds, or 0.325rps Revenge on the other hand is 15 rage every 9 seconds. or 1.66rps if you delay it by 1 gcd it lowers to 15 rage every 10.5s or 1.428rps assuming you don't have any revenge procs.

if we're delaying by 2 GCDs the RPS of BS is 0.317 and rev is 1.25
• 09-15-2012, 03:00 PM
kebess
Quote:

Originally Posted by Tengenstein
It's not about exact scenarios though, it's about "on average" what should be done,

Yes, agreed with that.
You may want to sometimes use Shout over Revenge in some Rage occasions - for example if you absolutely need a SBar, because you are about to die and only have 40 Rage. In that precise moment Shout would indeed be better, since it would increase your Barrier by an additional 5 Rage.

However, we can't have a baseline priority rotation based on every single exception. It may be nice to mention that exception somewhere if it's even worth mentioning, but that's about it.
• 09-15-2012, 07:40 PM
Strucker
Quote:

Originally Posted by Tengenstein
My recomendation comes from having done quite a few simulations and that rev over shouts is a slight RPS gain

Out of curiosity, how many attacks per second do you have the tank taking in your sims? Do your sims favor Revenge > Shout when working with a boss swing as slow as 1 per 2 seconds?

Oh and what Dodge/Parry chances?
• 09-15-2012, 08:14 PM
Tengenstein
It is a 2 second swing timer in the sims, and 2 seconds is not slow for bosses, its standard, six of the eight encounters in DS default to a 2second, though most of them have some sort of haste mechanic. and very few bosses melee much slower than that (Quiang, Chimaeron).

~20% avoidance. Which is very low, but thats about how much we're gonna have at the end of tier 14

Really the choice of Revenge or Shout is negligible in comparison to the timing of TCs, we're talking hundreths of an RPS.
• 09-15-2012, 08:39 PM
Strucker
Quote:

Originally Posted by Tengenstein
It is a 2 second swing timer in the sims, and 2 seconds is not slow for bosses, its standard, six of the eight encounters in DS default to a 2second, though most of them have some sort of haste mechanic. and very few bosses melee much slower than that (Quiang, Chimaeron).

~20% avoidance. Which is very low, but thats about how much we're gonna have at the end of tier 14

Really the choice of Revenge or Shout is negligible in comparison to the timing of TCs, we're talking hundreths of an RPS.

Nice, with the 2 approaches so close the DPS bump of going with Revenge seems enough to decide it.
• 09-15-2012, 08:44 PM
Tengenstein
Expertise and Hit play a part as well, Revenge has to connect but shouts don't. likewise avatar also affecte Rev but not shouts. Really the 5.0.5 rage changes makes it all kinda bleh, rotation isn't really all that important past "press the shiny buttons"
• 09-16-2012, 09:00 PM
kopcap
Would anyone be able to test prismatic/mirror magic reduction numbers on mop raid bosses?
• 09-20-2012, 10:24 AM
callformedic
sorry to ask, but which sense does "3.603456*d/d" in stuckers Makro make...

the first number in the Parry/Dodge ratio is always the naked Parry value.. is this intended?
• 09-20-2012, 10:27 AM
Tengenstein
I would assume so, it's Strucker's macro, not mine.
• 09-21-2012, 01:23 PM
Booi
Quote:

Originally Posted by Tengenstein
It is a 2 second swing timer in the sims, and 2 seconds is not slow for bosses, its standard, six of the eight encounters in DS default to a 2second, though most of them have some sort of haste mechanic. and very few bosses melee much slower than that (Quiang, Chimaeron).

I thought they were moving everything to 1.5 second boss swings that way Paladins don't need to worry about timing SotR.

The closest thing I can find as a source...(not sure if there is something more definitive)
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/to...8058?page=5#95
• 09-21-2012, 04:21 PM
Tengenstein
Currest testing puts most bosses at a 2 second swing time on the beta, some are shorter (gara'jal) some are longer (sha of fear).
Quote:

/run local sp=UnitAttackSpeed("target"); SendChatMessage(GetUnitName("target").."'s current attack speed: "..(("%%.%df"):format(2)):format(sp), "WHISPER", nil, GetUnitName("PLAYER"))
will whisper you your current targets attack speed.

as to timing Shotr, its my understanding that you don't really need to time it for melee swings very much, even with a 1.5 seconds boss swing timer you reduce the same amount of melee swings in a 3 seconds period regardless of what point of the boss swing timer you put it up. However you will still want to time it for boss specials like impale or thrash etc.
• 09-22-2012, 08:02 AM
Bodasafa
In regards to rotation would it be correct to say:

On Pull:

Shout (rage builder + required if no other class buffs) then Charge (if applicable)
SS
Rev
Dev
TC
HS on Ultimatum proc only

Standard non-pull:

SS on availability
Rev on availability
Dev to fill gaps
Shout/BR on CD
SB or Sbar (fight dependent) on CD (unless fight requires specific usage)
Demo where appropriate
HS on Ultimatum proc only

I'm not really sure where Deadly Calm + non - Ultimatum HS's fit in and Avatar/Dragon Roar?
• 09-22-2012, 08:38 AM
Booi
Quote:

Originally Posted by Tengenstein
Currest testing puts most bosses at a 2 second swing time on the beta, some are shorter (gara'jal) some are longer (sha of fear).

GC alleviated Paladin concerns by saying that most were on a 1.5 second timer (guaranteed two melees). With a 2 second swing timer they only catch two melees half the time.

I don't have access to the beta, is there a list of MoP boss swing timers sitting somewhere? Otherwise I can wait until tuesday to run the macro. (EDIT: I assumed I could drop Unit IDs into the macro... perhaps not on tuesday)
• 09-22-2012, 01:56 PM
Airowird
Quote:

Originally Posted by Bodasafa
In regards to rotation would it be correct to say:

On Pull:

Shout (rage builder + required if no other class buffs) then Charge (if applicable)
SS
Rev
Dev
TC
HS on Ultimatum proc only
...

On the pull you'll want to apply Weakened Blows faster, preferably right as you charge in, to reduce those initial swings. It also gives the boss time to swing once, granting you more vengeance AP, thus harder hitting first Shield Slam.
Of course you can ignore TC completely when you have a second tank doing WB debuffing for you.

The rotation pretty much stays the same for normal tanking, burst CDs are there for picking up adds that need to be nuked or replacing the Dev before SS goes off CD with it for the least amount of Rage lost.

HS is used almost purely on Ultimatum procs, ignore them for rage usage.
Rage goes into SBlock or Sbar, depending on CD and/or the amount of magic damage you take.
Depending on how your healers are managing, your <20% boss HP strategy becomes:
* Stop bleeding excess rage into SBar, Execute instead (replace Devastate in prio)
* Stop using defensive abilities all together, pop/chain whatever cooldowns you still got, kill the boss before you die.
• 09-22-2012, 01:58 PM
Gregasaurous
Quote:

Originally Posted by Bodasafa
In regards to rotation would it be correct to say:

On Pull:

Shout (rage builder + required if no other class buffs) then Charge (if applicable)

Either charge or Heroic Leap if you need perfect positioning (ie Zonozz) Everything else looks to be correct except for TC, it should be one of the first things you pop.

Use of Heroic Strike outside of a proc is completely dependent on how badly you need to stay alive. If you are in absolutely no danger of dieing for any reason (boss hits like a girl) go ahead and weave in a few HS. Or if you're on a DPS race boss, use it at your own discretion, ideally with a small cd to cover the damage spike. But remember, your first priority as tank is to always stay alive.

I believe you can use Dragon roar on CD, unless you can't spare the GCD for survivability reasons of course. I'm not sure if we're going to be using Avatar as an actual CD or as often as possible, it will probably be situational.
• 09-22-2012, 06:11 PM
kopcap
I don't agree with poping TC at the start at all. First, its utterly redundant at the start. Second, your first and foremost priority should be putting sunders up and some SSlams in. Third, its a waste of a GCD if you use Recklessness on the pull.
• 09-22-2012, 07:17 PM
Gregasaurous
Quote:

Originally Posted by kopcap
I don't agree with poping TC at the start at all. First, its utterly redundant at the start. Second, your first and foremost priority should be putting sunders up and some SSlams in. Third, its a waste of a GCD if you use Recklessness on the pull.

Where to begin....
For there to be a redundancy you would need a second method of applying Weakened Blows. Unless you have an off-tank doing it for you, but that point was already addressed by Airowird.
If you want a armor debuff asap: shout -> zerker rage -> Shattering Throw -> charge. GG 6% more armor reduction in 1/3 the time it would take to get 3 devastate stacks.
Not that it was brought up recently anyway, gold star for being random, Recklessness is off the GCD.

Did i miss anything?
• 09-22-2012, 08:16 PM
kopcap
Yes.

a) DR does not matter on the pull
b) DPS does
c) ST are SA are not self exclusive
d) TC in on GCD and you can only fit so many into recklessness uptime
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