Tier 14 in Mists of Pandaria to have mini tiers in itself!

A recent interview with Ion Hazzikostas and Scott Mercer this was revealed

"Mists of Pandaria will also include two other raids which we plan to make available a few weeks after launch... Both of these instances are a higher tier than the Mogu'shan Vaults and are designed to be tackled using gear obtained in the Vaults, which is why we plan to make them accessible a few weeks after launch"

(http://www.mmo-champion.com/content/) Blizzard Insider 45 - Mists of Pandaria - Raid Preview for link

I find this very interesting because by guiding players in a direction they want them to tackle the content

1. It won't be nearly as intimidating when choosing which of the 16 bosses of this tier to tackle first
2. Raiders will have an actual cohesive story in a tier(Yes they've done this in other tiers but not to the extent as this tier
3. Players will not get burnt out on these raids as fast as previous tiers hopefully which will give Blizzard more time to work on the raid content for future patches.

What do you guys think?

I like it simply because it's..... PROGRESSION.

Do Raid A first..... then go into Raid B.

This just takes me back to the old BC model in a way though. Heroics are going to get old in some way because.... guess what.... they're the same bosses those players have already beaten. I kind of hate to say it, but I'm beginning to agree with the old school crowd in a way in that, "valor points" might have "ruined the game".

The problem is even if raid b is s posed to require gear from raid A. People will still attempt raid B. And find ways to do it in the least amount of gear as possible, the only real way to implement this is attunement quests.

@ Leet.....
If players are good enough to do Raid B in sub-Raid A gear.... hey, props. That's what you get for being He-Man. For the regular Joe Average WoW-Player, they'll probably benefit more from running A, then B.

Though.... I'll play devil's advocate for a moment here....
If you're running Raid B in "suboptimal gear", then you're really not doing "everything you can to optimize yourself" and make your toon the best it can be to ensure success. That is one of the common arguments and things I hear in regards to players not having the best enchants/gems etc.... AND in opposition to "turning the buff off".

So, I say no. No attunements. If you really are Billy Badass and able to roll Raid B without Raid A gear.... more power to you. But then, don't whine about there "not being enough content". Oh.... and lastly.... it'll be a few weeks later anyway.... so those who would be stomping Raid A will likely be done with it already by that point anyway.

Edit: Attunements.... such a fun topic. It's like many other things.... some people want these things to apply to everyone else, but not themselves.

Without attunements:

1)Top Guilds kill 2-3 bosses in Raid A, then kill Boss 1 of Raid B
2)Every other guild thats 2-3/X in Raid A starts attempting Raid B
3)Massive QQ
4)Raid B gets early nerfs

With Attunements
1)Top Guilds QQ, but not opening b/c hey attunements are back
2)Attunements work
3)Massive QQ
4)No nerfs because people are complaining about the order of bosses that bosses need to be killed in.

Almost...... I'm adding my edits in bold....

Quote:

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Originally Posted by leethaxor

Without attunements:

1)Top Guilds kill 2-3 bosses in Raid A, then kill Boss 1 of Raid B
2)Every other guild thats 2-3/X in Raid A starts attempting Raid B
3)Massive QQ
4)Raid B gets early nerfs

With Attunements
1)Top Guilds QQ, but not opening b/c hey attunements are back
2)Attunements work
3)Massive QQ
4)Due to massive QQ over attunements, Blizzard removes attunements again.
5)Raid B still gets nerfed because it's the easiest way for Blizzard to fix it and respond to QQ.

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You have waaaaaaaay too much faith in the community.

NO I WANT ATTUNEMENTS

I mean in the end it all will be nerfed, but I like the idea of a repeat of t8 (Naxx/Sarth/Mally, just not Naxx). Sort of like we had in T11 (a gear tier mind you), but have To4W be unlocked by defeating nefarian, and the ability to Summon Al'Akir unlocked by defeating Cho'gall.

I'd like to see attunements back also. Or at least a "I graduated from t14 A" certificate, showing one's level of competence.

There are so many factors and variables that play into this though, I just don't see Blizzard being able to implement an attunement without making it something fairly.... easy.

Naxx was T7, and I don't remember any attunements... I'm confused. Also there's already going to be different raid instances open (4 of them I think) at release, then I guess 2 more a few weeks later now?

I will say that I'm not a big fan of "HERE'S 16 BOSSES YOU CAN DO ANY OF THE FIRST 12 WITHOUT DOING ANY PREVIOUS ONES" like... wtf WHERE DO I GO BLIZZARD. I'm really okay with kill this boss then this boss then this boss then this boss kinda stuff.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Aggathon

Naxx was T7, and I don't remember any attunements... I'm confused. Also there's already going to be different raid instances open (4 of them I think) at release, then I guess 2 more a few weeks later now?

I will say that I'm not a big fan of "HERE'S 16 BOSSES YOU CAN DO ANY OF THE FIRST 12 WITHOUT DOING ANY PREVIOUS ONES" like... wtf WHERE DO I GO BLIZZARD. I'm really okay with kill this boss then this boss then this boss then this boss kinda stuff.

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The key to summon malygos was dropped from sarth

Quote:

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Originally Posted by leethaxor

I mean in the end it all will be nerfed, but I like the idea of a repeat of t8 (Naxx/Sarth/Mally, just not Naxx). Sort of like we had in T11 (a gear tier mind you), but have To4W be unlocked by defeating nefarian, and the ability to Summon Al'Akir unlocked by defeating Cho'gall.

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And how would you handle the transition to t12 from there?

@Leucifer. Attune nothing. Just let the transition happen. Attunements between raid instances (within the same tier) in my opinion help with story telling and create a story behind bosses, it makes relations instead of

3 different camps of baddies are doing something bad AT THE SAME TIME!

Fair enough.
You realize though, that this would almost not even be an issue for two whole tiers of Cata then?

Edit:

I hate to say it, but I think we're going to see the established LFR/Normal/Heroic with ever increasing buffs/debuffs being the model going forward. Yes.... tier14 might have an extra super tier... a t14+ if you want, but it'll be subject to the whole "block" model that we've seen since ICC.

I'm kinda worried about the debuff nerfs... with so many bosses, will they even give non-HC guilds a chance to complete the content before they start nerfing shit?

The gating method from ICC will likely never be done again. And the way its being implemented will likely only give 2 extra bosses in the t14+ tier, which has always been done in past few tiers going back to 10. Lich king functioned as a t10+, every end boss of the tier gave a couple extra ilvl's the then primary tier, so I feel it won't be game breaking having a t14+ on LFR/N/H

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Aggathon

I'm kinda worried about the debuff nerfs... with so many bosses, will they even give non-HC guilds a chance to complete the content before they start nerfing shit?

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They can always turn them off......

Edit: I can see Agg twitching at that suggestion.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Aggathon

I'm kinda worried about the debuff nerfs... with so many bosses, will they even give non-HC guilds a chance to complete the content before they start nerfing shit?

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Doubtful, they didn't in t11.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Leucifer

They can always turn them off......

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No, no you can't. That is the dumbest argument ever. Unless there is separate achievements for doing it with the buff off there is no reason what so ever to turn it off. There is no way to prove you did with with the buff off unless you start totalling damage from logs.

Turning off nerfs just hurts your own position in where ever you are. My arguement has always been if your concerned about nerfs then kill it before it is nerfed, if you can't then your the reason it was nerfed.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by leethaxor

No, no you can't. That is the dumbest argument ever. Unless there is separate achievements for doing it with the buff off there is no reason what so ever to turn it off. There is no way to prove you did with with the buff off unless you start totalling damage from logs.

Turning off nerfs just hurts your own position in where ever you are. My arguement has always been if your concerned about nerfs then kill it before it is nerfed, if you can't then your the reason it was nerfed.

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EXACTLY.

Thank you.

If it really is that big of a matter to you to do it without the nerf, then do it. Otherwise, you just weren't good enough to do it fast enough.