i have to say this would be an excellent idea. i never really got into raids in cata, granted i raided all the normal mode content on my alts (got asked to bring my heals for this or my ranged for that) but never really finished everything on my main toon. more so due to the fact i leveled my main slowly and got left behind by the raiding guilds at the time. recommending dropping the raids for a couple of weeks would bring everyone to par.
If it released without raids, well it might as well release without pvp. WoW is a two legged table, cut off one leg and it won't stand up.
Considering everything you discussed I would support this. One thing to bear in mind however, whether it helps or hurts your argument, the Zandalari dungeons and Firelands were split in this manner, we have history to fall back on and see how the community at large reacted to it then. Offhand I don't recall everything that 4.1 added besides the 5man dungeons however but I think it had much less than MoP launch will. As a frequent pugger at that time, I hold the belief with little to no evidence, that if the Zandalari's and Firelands launched together, the Zandalari item level would have been half a tier above T11 instead of still half a tier below, and this made BiS still the raid gear from a previous patch rather than using the 5mans to gear up for the new tier. Would we get this again?
I'm sure, no matter how you look at it, a lot of people just won't buy it. A lot of people would just take the stance of "call me when the raids come out". People would have a problem with taking blizzard at their word for when, exactly, they plan to release the content, weather or not they deliver on time.
It kinda reminds me of so many complaints I've seen on the forums that something was/is broken, and blizzard would wait until the next patch or when ever to fix it. This could very well be the last straw that drives people to say "ya know what, fine. do your thing, I'll wait, and so will my subscription".
if the launch is already going to be later than what people expect, they've already given themselves a problem. finish the xpac, raids included, and launch a solid game IMHO.
After watching the marmot, I’d agree with you in theory. However, I doubt the wow community at large would concur. As a member of a casual raiding guild, we probably wont start raiding until 2 weeks after release anyway. I can still think of a couple of people in the team that would be disgruntled by such a move. (yes I know that makes no sense, this is the internet though.)
There are a lot of raiders out there that Don't look at external sights like tankspot for news, all they would hear is MoP is being released without Raiding content. no matter how serious you take raiding, there is no way that could appeal to people without the proper context.
also I agree with Jhoren above me, this would be similar to what they did in FL with Zandalari dungeons. there would of course be more content than two dingy dungeons, but it's what a lot of wow players would think back too if this were announced, I think that would leave a pretty bitter taste in a lot of peoples, particularly raiders, mouths.
just my 2 copper.
Listening now...point by point:
1) I ... dislike leveling. So I don't "want to take my time" or whatever...I want it OVER.
2) I don't care about any of the worthless crap they're adding. Challenge modes might sound interesting to kill some time, but those are very much a "between tiers" sort of thing. But pet battles? If someone in my raid is wasting time doing that instead of getting ready to raid they won't be raiding with us. They WILL be replaced.
3) The gear argument is...almost a Diablo 3 level of argument. Grinding gear is NOT interesting. Diablo 3 is NOT FUN for that reason. If you turn WoW into that then why even bother making a new expansion? Just keep adding crap to D3.
I'm perfectly happy to let my WoW subscription rot while they make MoP...if they released the expansion and it didn't have raids, I'd not bother to buy it until they were going to release the raids anyway.
Oh dear gods, Lore's been playing DDR...
I'm gonna go ahead and just say you should probably not be playing World of Warcraft. It doesn't sound like the game for you.
There are a LOT of people that feel that same way, lore. So what? If I don't like f**king pokemon I shouldn't play wow to raid? That's just an ass thing to say.
This is an AWESOME idea. I always felt rushed to level quick to hit raids, just to have a complete wipefest for the first few weeks. To delay raids so we can catch up on the gear curve for the first tier is an incredible idea.
Too bad the marketing spin would just be awful....
Farming gear is the slow boring part of raiding. After everything has been killed.
I play to raid, for the challenge, for learning and working together as a team to defeat a boss.
No other game does this as well as WoW. Well rift to an extent but lets admit it, its about the same and WoW has been here longer.
Personally, I would love too see a 2 week gap between Mop Release and Raid's unveiling. Anything more would definitely be pushing it though. 2 weeks give you time to get rid of all you leveling greens without feeling like you *ahem* HAVE TO BE RAIDING OMG YOU BAD FOR NOT BEING IN THAT RAID RIGHT NAAAAAAAAAAOOOOOOOOOOWWWWWWWW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 2 weeks is far from a gear grind. And here's a thought, with all this alternate PVE content, maybe 5 man heroics will be.... "Heroic!" Though maybe I'm one of the few who thought the Heroics at the start of Cata were fun instances as long as people weren't bad. (I still run them now and then for kicks.....)
I agree with Turand though, the media and majority of the community would piss all over it...
I'm gonna go ahead and just say you should probably not be playing World of Warcraft.
weather you agree/disagree with the idea of delaying raids... whatever, I said my peace. but hell.. someone shouldn't play because they don;t like [insert random aspect of wow] is crossing a line IMO.
I'm kinda confused about something:
You all want to raid, fine and dandy with that..and yet you kinda are giving me the sense you rather not put the work to get to raid because leveling and getting gear to do the raid is exactly that.
How boring would the game be and how one dimensional would it be if you were max level and you were thrown in dungeons over and over. Would be a really simple dungeon crawler to do.
I dunno, leveling is a part of the RPG genre and you can't really get away from that. It makes no sense. That's why I'm a little confused on how many people 'loathe' the leveling process because it's in the way of what they want to do: Raid.
It wouldn't be an RPG or an MMO if it had absolutely no leveling and no advancement whatsoever to make your toon feel bad. I think this is more of the case that it's been a while now y'all have been playing WoW and that you're tired of always having to level those five extra levels to get back to what it is.
I dunno, it would just go against the entire idea of what an MMO is by removing those core aspects. I don't get it and I probably never will get the idea behind that.
Very loosely, I'll admit, as there are other things to do, but in the end, it's a grind to get the requirements to raid no? What MMO out there have you seen that hasn't gotten a level grind that has been remotely successful? What RPG alone?
Leveling has been at the core an RPG element. Removing leveling is removing the RPG aspect. Makes no sense to me.
Gearing up is an important and integral part of raiding. If you don't want to spend time farming gear, you should probably not raid in World of Warcraft. I mean no offense by that whatsoever, I'm simply stating that that's how the game is played, and if you don't enjoy that type of gameplay, you probably won't enjoy World of Warcraft. Given that you and Ion both spend a lot of time on the forums expressing how much you dislike WoW, I'd figure you'd agree.
After reading the posts here, I must say that to a vast majority of players, a delay would not even be noticed. As much as I like the game, real life dictates that I cant spend 80 hours a week leveiling my toons. Leviling has lost some of its charm admitidly, but, it is part of the game, like it or not. With numorous toons to work on, raid will be a while for me personally anyway.
The trouble with the releasing of raids later is that there is no precident and the media fallout would be horrible for the game. If there were some past history of doing this, or if it was at least announced much earlier that this would be the situation, then it might not be so bad, but if they were to do this now, I think the feeling would be that Blizzard dropped the ball on this expansion.
Face it people, out of the ten million people playing, just how many people will be raiding the first week, even on one toon? It would give people a chance to level all thier toons, or at least more than just your main.
If announced earlier, then I would love a chance to level as many toons as possible to the cap, without the pressure to level a single toon ASAP to raid with. Thats not going to happen though, so no use flaming about it.
I am glad you brought the idea up though Lore, no harm in talking about it... Lighten up everyone, its not going to happen anyway..
you don't like anything other than raiding,
I'm sorry if you think that's somehow uncommon, but I'd venture to say with a bit of confidence, that there is a good number of people that share the same or at least similar sentiment.
back on topic, those people, myself included, would be pretty pissed.
I enjoy leveling, I enjoy the heroic farm initially and I enjoy doing things like achievment runs and I'll probably enjoy challenge modes. Still would not buy MoP if raids werent out at release. I view all of those as fun little time killers but the one and only reason I keep playing wow is raiding, with out raids I would feel no driving force to do any of the afformentioned things.