Ugh, Shadow... the bane of my life.

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04-26-2012, 08:28 PM
Charonites

Ugh, Shadow... the bane of my life.

So, I'm in the unfortunate position in my Guild where we do 10-Man's and I'm the only one of our Healers who has bothered to put together a DPS offspec, so on 2-healer fights, I'm the poor S-O-B who has to go to DPS, or get sat out.

And honestly..

With the DPS I'm pulling right now, I'd rather just get sat out. I feel like I'm the reason we're wiping on HC Ultraxion, we've had some low % wipes, that I know could of been avoided if my DPS was higher, everyone else is hitting 35k+, even the Tanks are breaking 27k+, and I'm sitting rather uncomfortably at 21k, on a good day..

And it's getting desperate, my Guild has noticed and I don't think my cries of "Oh, it's the RNG" is washing with them, but I do feel like the RNG of this spec is against me, I wanted to try my DPS on the dummies earlier, to try and refine my rotation and I actually cast Mind Flay 12 times whilst keeping Shadow Word: Pain up, before I got a single Shadow Orb.. I just let the fight end and restarted at that point..

But RNG doesn't explain my low DPS on fights where the RNG is not an issue.. I hit 30k+ during BL, then trinkle on down to 21-25k.. which I feel is just not acceptable for a DPS doing Hard modes. Now it is an offspec, but I don't want to be that guy who switches to his DPS gear and spec and everyone says "Whoever does less DPS then Alaria has to pay 100g to the Guild bank!" for a joke.

http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...laria/advanced

I've logged out in my DPS gear, and I'm wondering if theres any modifications you guys think you could make? And yeah, I know the trinket is bad.. I'm using it as a Int-trinket because nothing else has dropped that my Raid will give to me over our MS casters, we use a Loot Council. I've not been a DPS, let alone a Caster DPS for very long, so I don't know how much difference the Trinket makes? Probably more then I realise..

Currently the "priority system" I use is as follows:
Opener: (Pre-Cast)VT, SW:P, MFx2(or until Shadow Orb), SF+AA, MB, DP, ~~
I keep VT and DP up at all times, refreshing between 1-3 seconds before they drop off.
I keep Empowered Shadows uptime as close to 100% as I can, even if it means using only 1 Shadow Orb.
I clip MF to cast a SOx3MB.
I try to cast Shadowfiend during Power Torrent, but won't obsess over it.

I probably do more but can't think right now, it's 4:30AM where I am at the moment..

Can anyone help me? I've looked everywhere for help and honestly, I'm at my wits end with this spec, I just can't seem to make it work..
04-27-2012, 06:30 PM
Edd13Mac

Your reforges seem puzzling right off the bat. I would visit this site for sure to take care of those problems:
http://www.wowreforge.com/EU/Jaedenar/Alaria
04-29-2012, 10:38 AM
Charonites

All that did was replace my Hit reforges with Spirit, and add abit of Haste here and Mastery.. it didn't really improve my DPS a whole lot.
04-29-2012, 10:50 AM
Tengenstein

Sorry are you delaying MB? really you should be using it on CD if the dots are rolling since it has a higher DPET even with zero orbs than MF
04-30-2012, 07:24 AM
Baltimore

I struggled a lot to reach 35k dps on ultraxion. It's not a fun fight for shadow priests. Here are some tips.

You are in your disc gear again, so I can't comment on your gear. If you have tier 13 4-set, reforge for hit cap, 2589 haste and then mastery. Otherwise, just hit-cap and haste.

If you have tier 13 4-set, use the shadow fiend MS/MB rotation at the start (unless you BL at the start, then you should use the normal rotation) and again as it becomes available. Do it right after an hour of twilight, to avoid being interrupted by it.

Mind Flay is just a filler. Don't wait for it to finish, always try to interrupt it as soon as you have something better to cast, but try to interrupt it right after a tick.

A key to maximize dps is to make sure your dots tick as high as possible. If you get a proc from power torrent or lightweave (I see you're a tailor, but low skill), refresh your dots. Refreshing DP is always a good alternative to just casting MF, but VT shouldn't be refreshed too often. When you BL, refresh your dots immediately and again right before BL wears off. If you BL at the start, make sure to refresh dots as soon as you have dark evangelism and empowered shadows up. Prepotted, trinkets and enchants procced, and BL, makes for some nice dots.

Don't forget shadow word: death on cooldown near the end. Especially if you have 2-set.

If you are using dispersion to soak hour of twilight, cancel it as fast as possible.
05-04-2012, 09:56 AM
plushy

Quote:

Originally Posted by Baltimore

I struggled a lot to reach 35k dps on ultraxion. It's not a fun fight for shadow priests. Here are some tips.

You are in your disc gear again, so I can't comment on your gear. If you have tier 13 4-set, reforge for hit cap, 2589 haste and then mastery. Otherwise, just hit-cap and haste.

If you have tier 13 4-set, use the shadow fiend MS/MB rotation at the start (unless you BL at the start, then you should use the normal rotation) and again as it becomes available. Do it right after an hour of twilight, to avoid being interrupted by it.

Mind Flay is just a filler. Don't wait for it to finish, always try to interrupt it as soon as you have something better to cast, but try to interrupt it right after a tick.

A key to maximize dps is to make sure your dots tick as high as possible. If you get a proc from power torrent or lightweave (I see you're a tailor, but low skill), refresh your dots. Refreshing DP is always a good alternative to just casting MF, but VT shouldn't be refreshed too often. When you BL, refresh your dots immediately and again right before BL wears off. If you BL at the start, make sure to refresh dots as soon as you have dark evangelism and empowered shadows up. Prepotted, trinkets and enchants procced, and BL, makes for some nice dots.

Don't forget shadow word: death on cooldown near the end. Especially if you have 2-set.

If you are using dispersion to soak hour of twilight, cancel it as fast as possible.

Make sure you have a cancel aura macro :)
but plz don't press it twice otherwise you gonna run into different problems
06-29-2012, 03:36 PM
Exiledknight

Quote:

Originally Posted by Baltimore

If you have tier 13 4-set, use the shadow fiend MS/MB rotation at the start (unless you BL at the start, then you should use the normal rotation) and again as it becomes available.
Mind Flay is just a filler. Don't wait for it to finish, always try to interrupt it as soon as you have something better to cast, but try to interrupt it right after a tick.

A key to maximize dps is to make sure your dots tick as high as possible. If you get a proc from power torrent or lightweave (I see you're a tailor, but low skill), refresh your dots. Refreshing DP is always a good alternative to just casting MF

This is all 100% wrong.

Regardless of when you lust you enter your 4pc rotation immediately on Ultraxion, because the first 45 seconds of the fight are the only 45 seconds you can be 100% sure that you will be able to fully use it and not be interrupted. BL just means you get more SF dmg, and more Mind spikes....at a time where you get increased Mind Spike dmg..

Mind flay is FAR from a filler, and no you do not simply interrupt it(except to cast MB). To correctly utilize MF clipping you want to clip the first cast of it immediatly after tick #2, clipping it then with your next MF gives your next channel 4 ticks and more dps. Refreshing DP is not a good alternative to casting MF at all, simply put your improved DP does not do the dmg to make it better than MF. For 1 GCD in IDP my average dmg is 28k, this is in full heroic BiS gear, where as a full MF channel which is the same time as a GCD will yield 3 ticks of 13k each, casting DP instead of MF is a DPS loss.

Please let's try to not give out misinformation to players looking for help.

You aren't in your shadow gear so I can't look at reforges gear choices etc.
You don't mention addons, cast bars, proc trackers, dot timers etc...

First off UI is very important as a dot class, you need a good tracker to ensure optimal uptime of your dots(85-87% if using the 4pc rotation). Use shadowtimers for that, for mult target fights I like dot timers to track on all targets so I know when to refresh them.
Secondly to correctly clip MF you need a good cast bar addon, I prefer Gnosis as the tick points are very noticable and the addon is very configurable.
You also need an addon telling you about your procs because Baltimore is correct in refreshing dots...I use needtoknow

Other than that the basics of being a shadow priest are these
1. Keep all 3 dots up
2. MIND BLAST! WHAT YOU HAVE NO ORBS MIND BLAST MIND BLAST MIND BLAST. get it? Use it on CD NO MATTER WHAT
3. If you are not doing #1 and #2 Mind Flay and clip it correctly

A few tips for Ultraxion
refresh your dots right before hour of twilight to ensure they don't fall off
Do not pop AA, any racials, SF etc unless you will get full use before an Hour of Twilight
wait until there is 1 second left to hit heroic will
Make a cancel aura macro for dispersion to quickly begin dpsing again after soaking.
07-18-2012, 03:39 PM
Leucifer

Quote:

Originally Posted by Exiledknight

This is all 100% wrong.

No. No it's not.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Exiledknight

Regardless of when you lust you enter your 4pc rotation immediately on Ultraxion, because the first 45 seconds of the fight are the only 45 seconds you can be 100% sure that you will be able to fully use it and not be interrupted. BL just means you get more SF dmg, and more Mind spikes....at a time where you get increased Mind Spike dmg..

This.... yes. MS/MB during time warp / heroism / whatever. Not sure about the 4 piece bonus as I don't have it, and thus, I don't worry about it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Exiledknight

Mind flay is FAR from a filler, and no you do not simply interrupt it(except to cast MB). To correctly utilize MF clipping you want to clip the first cast of it immediatly after tick #2, clipping it then with your next MF gives your next channel 4 ticks and more dps. Refreshing DP is not a good alternative to casting MF at all, simply put your improved DP does not do the dmg to make it better than MF. For 1 GCD in IDP my average dmg is 28k, this is in full heroic BiS gear, where as a full MF channel which is the same time as a GCD will yield 3 ticks of 13k each, casting DP instead of MF is a DPS loss.

This is probably the trickiest part to shadow priest I've found so far...... clipping mind flay correctly. Please note though.... he IS in full heroic BiS gear, and may have more haste than you. He does have a good point.... don't just clip it without good reason.

Learn to play the shadow priest rhythmically.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Exiledknight

Please let's try to not give out misinformation to players looking for help.

You aren't in your shadow gear so I can't look at reforges gear choices etc.
You don't mention addons, cast bars, proc trackers, dot timers etc...

First off UI is very important as a dot class, you need a good tracker to ensure optimal uptime of your dots(85-87% if using the 4pc rotation). Use shadowtimers for that, for mult target fights I like dot timers to track on all targets so I know when to refresh them.
Secondly to correctly clip MF you need a good cast bar addon, I prefer Gnosis as the tick points are very noticable and the addon is very configurable.
You also need an addon telling you about your procs because Baltimore is correct in refreshing dots...I use needtoknow

This..... disagree that you need an add-on. If you are paying attention and not just mashing keys, you can see when DoT's are about to fall off. ALSO.... with DoT's..... Baltimore is right about one thing.....

Quote:

Originally Posted by Baltimore

A key to maximize dps is to make sure your dots tick as high as possible. If you get a proc from power torrent or lightweave (I see you're a tailor, but low skill), refresh your dots. Refreshing DP is always a good alternative to just casting MF, but VT shouldn't be refreshed too often. When you BL, refresh your dots immediately and again right before BL wears off. If you BL at the start, make sure to refresh dots as soon as you have dark evangelism and empowered shadows up. Prepotted, trinkets and enchants procced, and BL, makes for some nice dots.

DoT's do damage based off of what buffs are active on you at the time of casting. Thus.... a cast ov VT/SW:P/DP cast when you have empowered shadow or power torrent or ANY other spellpower/damage boost applicable..... will be more powerful than one that's ticking that you cast when you're missing these.

For me.... if I see power torrent kick.... I hit SW:P and DP instantly to boost those.... so long as I have empowered shadow up. It's VERY likely that the casts previous did not have these buffs. ALSO.... you can squeeze more out with an "on activation" trinket at the end of a burst phase. For our opener on that.... I'm hitting MS / MB / SW: Death with heroism popped and with a trink popped.... BUT.... in the final seconds of the trink, I'l lay down SW:P and DP to get them rolling at least.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Exiledknight

Other than that the basics of being a shadow priest are these
1. Keep all 3 dots up
2. MIND BLAST! WHAT YOU HAVE NO ORBS MIND BLAST MIND BLAST MIND BLAST. get it? Use it on CD NO MATTER WHAT
3. If you are not doing #1 and #2 Mind Flay and clip it correctly

This.... is shadow priest in a nutshell...
07-19-2012, 12:59 PM
Exiledknight

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leucifer

No. No it's not..

Provide what part you feel is not wrong, because it all is wrong, you do use the 4pc rotation during lust if they line up, DP is not a better alternative than MF, MF is not JUST a filler. The entire state was wrong.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leucifer

This.... yes. MS/MB during time warp / heroism / whatever. Not sure about the 4 piece bonus as I don't have it, and thus, I don't worry about it.

This is wrong, the only reason to MS/MB is the 4pc bonus

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leucifer

This is probably the trickiest part to shadow priest I've found so far...... clipping mind flay correctly. Please note though.... he IS in full heroic BiS gear, and may have more haste than you. He does have a good point.... don't just clip it without good reason.

Who is the he we are referring too?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leucifer

This..... disagree that you need an add-on. If you are paying attention and not just mashing keys, you can see when DoT's are about to fall off. ALSO.... with DoT's..... Baltimore is right about one thing.....

How do you maintain dots on 2 arm tentacles and the corruption tentacle at once? You simply cannot maximize your damage without a good dot tracking addon.

Yes refreshing your dots when you get a proc increases dps....it is not however a BIG part of it. Which the OP has much more to learn that will increase their dps by larger margins than that.
07-19-2012, 01:15 PM
Leucifer

Quote:

Originally Posted by Exiledknight

Provide what part you feel is not wrong, because it all is wrong, you do use the 4pc rotation during lust if they line up, DP is not a better alternative than MF, MF is not JUST a filler. The entire state was wrong.

Ok. Since you wanna be like this. When you say "COMPLETELY" wrong, you are stating that every single last thing is incorrect. And it wasn't.
Because this:

"A key to maximize dps is to make sure your dots tick as high as possible. If you get a proc from power torrent or lightweave (I see you're a tailor, but low skill), refresh your dots. Refreshing DP is always a good alternative to just casting MF"

.... is correct.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Exiledknight

This is wrong, the only reason to MS/MB is the 4pc bonus

Funny, because during time warp on Ultraxion, it actually works out as a dps boost for me despite NOT having the 4 piece bonus. Especially since the group I run with is opening with it. Not having empowered shadow up and rolling right from the get-go hurt me on the damage ticks from the DoT's. And yes... I tried to talk my raid group into hold off for about 10 seconds for me to try and get that procced first.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Exiledknight

Who is the he we are referring too?

You.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Exiledknight

How do you maintain dots on 2 arm tentacles and the corruption tentacle at once? You simply cannot maximize your damage without a good dot tracking addon.

Yes refreshing your dots when you get a proc increases dps....it is not however a BIG part of it. Which the OP has much more to learn that will increase their dps by larger margins than that.

We were talking about Ultraxion. On a single target fight.... you're not maintaining multiple DoT's on multiple targets.
On fights with a significant number of targets... it would be ideal. If you want to maximize.
You have to bear in mind that also.... sometimes you need to pick and choose your targets. Like... for example... would you really want to spend the time reapplying dots to targets that are not going to live much past a single cycle of DoT's?

Hell.... you yourself said:

Quote:

"You also need an addon telling you about your procs because Baltimore is correct in refreshing dots...I use needtoknow

Other than that the basics of being a shadow priest are these
1. Keep all 3 dots up
2. MIND BLAST! WHAT YOU HAVE NO ORBS MIND BLAST MIND BLAST MIND BLAST. get it? Use it on CD NO MATTER WHAT
3. If you are not doing #1 and #2 Mind Flay and clip it correctly"

..... and I reiterated that.

You do realize I'm NOT entirely disagreeing with you, right? Or are you just trying to pick a fight for no good reason?
07-19-2012, 02:00 PM
Exiledknight

I'm too lazy to go through and quote everything.

With the 100% wrong, I was not going to neuter the one thing he said that is correct surrounded by the 5 things that were wrong. So yeah technically it was only 90% wrong, but it was still mostly wrong which means they really should not be giving advice.
Also no refreshing DP is not a better alternative to just casting MF.

If your dps is higher opening with it with no 4piece, then I would honestly go on the side of something is wrong somewhere with your gearing, or more likely your opening(i.e. to trigger empowered shadows open with MF spam, I have never gone 2 full casts without an orb, then MB and its up, 4-5 seconds in). Lust on the pull is ideal for Ultraxion, waiting 10 seconds severly would lower the rdps.

Wasn't aware of who you were speaking of, I don't know the people around here since I am so rarely on here, so wanted to ensure the you was me.

Yes ultraxion is a single target fight, however there are also more encounters than this on 10 man that you would 2 heal, which means they would be dpsing. In addition single target or not I 100% promise that unless you are the best shadow priest in the world, getting a dot timer would be an overall net gain. If you didn't want to maximize your damage, why ask how to improve? There are very few things that die so fast its not worth applying your dots to UNLESS you are mind searing.

I do realize there are things you agreed with....but not to be a jerk, however this is why the tankspot community and forum activity has dwindled, people want to add their 2 cents when they have a decent idea of what they are doing but not a massive full on one, which leads to a lot of misinformation being thrown out there. Just because you see better results from doing X does not mean that you are correct in that, because it very well could mean Y or Z is being done wrong. Look at baltimore, 6 wrong points to 2 correct.....the admin of the largest shadow priest community is a tankspot donor, and in my guild but yet will not post in the forums because of past issues like this. I am not trying to pick a fight, I am not trying to be a jerk, I am trying to ensure the player who is looking for help gets the help they need and that they get it with correct information.
07-19-2012, 04:08 PM
Leucifer

Agree on mind flay. It's not "just a filler". the whole point about clipping is completely valid and makes a ton of sense. The other thing is... it's one of our primary tools for generating shadow orbs, so it does a lot simply beyond "doing damage".

You're probably right. My gear is not that great as I just picked up shadow priest again recently, but, 8-9 times out of 10 it's something "we're" doing. I found myself a little bit ahead by a small margin riding MS/MB for the first half of warp. I'll take a look again and see what I can do to improve.

You're right on the DoT timer. It will improve your performance if used correctly. Same thing with a buff tracker. I guess I'm arguing the point because one thing I've seen a bit of is dps players zoning out onto their addons and not paying attention to other things that are going on.

Here's a question for you then regarding multi-target segments. How do you handle the adds on Yor'saj? The little guys that appear after the sludge gets to him? Myself... I try to keep my DoTs up on the boss, and then roll through the adds to place DoTs on them to help burn them down faster. What I've found is that frequently, by the time a DoT would wear off on them, they're either dead, or so close to dead that the DoT may only tick once or twice at best.What are your thoughts on handling that kind of massive multi-target situation where we have greater than 3 or 4 targets?

As for the sludges themselves.... yeah. A DoT timer there would be handy (an improvement over stock UI at any rate). As ranged... I can keep DoTs rolling on both the boss AND the incoming sludge at the same time. Using stock UI, I just set the boss on focus and keep an eye as to where the DoTs stand on him.

Another question then: if a DoT is approching its final tick, would you refresh it early if a proc like power torrent popped up? Or would you wait for that last tick, reapply it (and maybe even reapply before power torrent wears off)? What are your thoughts on that? I can see a potential gain to MAYBE reapplying it early, and then tagging it one last time before the proce wears off. Particularly with DP.

So... out of this:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Baltimore

I struggled a lot to reach 35k dps on ultraxion. It's not a fun fight for shadow priests. Here are some tips.

You are in your disc gear again, so I can't comment on your gear. If you have tier 13 4-set, reforge for hit cap, 2589 haste and then mastery. Otherwise, just hit-cap and haste.

If you have tier 13 4-set, use the shadow fiend MS/MB rotation at the start (unless you BL at the start, then you should use the normal rotation) and again as it becomes available. Do it right after an hour of twilight, to avoid being interrupted by it.

Mind Flay is just a filler. Don't wait for it to finish, always try to interrupt it as soon as you have something better to cast, but try to interrupt it right after a tick.

A key to maximize dps is to make sure your dots tick as high as possible. If you get a proc from power torrent or lightweave (I see you're a tailor, but low skill), refresh your dots. Refreshing DP is always a good alternative to just casting MF, but VT shouldn't be refreshed too often. When you BL, refresh your dots immediately and again right before BL wears off. If you BL at the start, make sure to refresh dots as soon as you have dark evangelism and empowered shadows up. Prepotted, trinkets and enchants procced, and BL, makes for some nice dots.

Don't forget shadow word: death on cooldown near the end. Especially if you have 2-set.

If you are using dispersion to soak hour of twilight, cancel it as fast as possible.

How much of this is actually "bad"? Are we talking about just the underlined?
07-23-2012, 07:27 AM
Exiledknight

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leucifer

I guess I'm arguing the point because one thing I've seen a bit of is dps players zoning out onto their addons and not paying attention to other things that are going on.

This is very true, every can zone out from time to time to focus on addons.....however what this also tells me is that it is a poorly designed UI, everything that is really important, and that needs to be checked often should be centered so that you do not need to move your eyes far to see. For example my shadowtimer addon is set to be just above my unit frames, my dot timer for multi target just off to the right for quick glances etc.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leucifer

Here's a question for you then regarding multi-target segments. How do you handle the adds on Yor'saj?

This is a hard question to answer because it really depends on your raid comp....technically mind sear will only be a dps gain when hitting 4 or more targets, so on 10 man with the right comp, all i would do is SWP them as they spawn and just single target Yor....obviously this doesn't work if your AOE is needed. On 25 man what we did other than phases where we would get the two spawns we just had fire mages and demo locks on them, with the shadow priests using Mind Sear instead of MF until a few died. On the double spawn phase I have the whole raid aoe like crazy...so for Shadow Priests that means your priority goes to this.
1. Mind Blast Yor on CD
2. Keep all dots up on Yor
3. Mind Sear until there are less than 4 adds.
Is it the way to cheese a parse at this point? No, however it generates the most effective dps for you, let the locks, rogues, kitties, and mages do the heavy lifting.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leucifer

Another question then: if a DoT is approching its final tick, would you refresh it early if a proc like power torrent popped up? Or would you wait for that last tick, reapply it (and maybe even reapply before power torrent wears off)? What are your thoughts on that? I can see a potential gain to MAYBE reapplying it early, and then tagging it one last time before the proce wears off. Particularly with DP.

You would want to ensure you refresh it with Power Torrent up, due to the length of the power torrent proc versus the length of your dots, it doesn't make sense to try and double up...unless you were in the process of refreshing when you got the proc. Typically all you want to do is ensure during that proc that you refresh.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leucifer

How much of this is actually "bad"? Are we talking about just the underlined?

I would say the struggled a lot to hit 35k is bad(unless its a 10 man with no thought for balance)....I want to say our first Heroic Ultraxion kill was nearly 6 months ago and I never had an issue with 35k at all

Quote:

Originally Posted by Baltimore

Refreshing DP is always a good alternative to just casting MF, but VT shouldn't be refreshed too often. When you BL, refresh your dots immediately and again right before BL wears off. If you BL at the start, make sure to refresh dots as soon as you have dark evangelism and empowered shadows up. Prepotted, trinkets and enchants procced, and BL, makes for some nice dots.

Refreshing DP verus MF= Bad

When you BL refresh dots immediately= bad if you have your 4 pc, because you should be lining it up with Bloodlust...technically bad even without 4pc because you ideally want to Potion>Archangel>beserking(if troll)>Shadowfiend before applying dots so that all those buffs factor into the blood lust period as well

If you BL at the start make sure to refresh dots=this is somewhat inconclusive....however I take refresh as meaning you already applied them so to me this is bad....empowered shadows is beyond easy to get up, simply start every encounter with Mind Flay...99.9% of the time you will have an orb before the first channel is done, Mind blast and apply dots, otherwise if you start the encounter with dots, you just wasted 3 or so GCD's for basically no damage, just to need to reapply 4-5 seconds later.
07-24-2012, 04:31 PM
Leucifer

Quote:

Originally Posted by Exiledknight

This is very true, every can zone out from time to time to focus on addons.....however what this also tells me is that it is a poorly designed UI, everything that is really important, and that needs to be checked often should be centered so that you do not need to move your eyes far to see. For example my shadowtimer addon is set to be just above my unit frames, my dot timer for multi target just off to the right for quick glances etc.

I'm playing with a UI to try and set it up to aid in this. I'll hit you back with an update on that soon. I was thinking along the same lines though......

Quote:

Originally Posted by Exiledknight

This is a hard question to answer because it really depends on your raid comp....technically mind sear will only be a dps gain when hitting 4 or more targets, so on 10 man with the right comp, all i would do is SWP them as they spawn and just single target Yor....obviously this doesn't work if your AOE is needed. On 25 man what we did other than phases where we would get the two spawns we just had fire mages and demo locks on them, with the shadow priests using Mind Sear instead of MF until a few died. On the double spawn phase I have the whole raid aoe like crazy...so for Shadow Priests that means your priority goes to this.
1. Mind Blast Yor on CD
2. Keep all dots up on Yor
3. Mind Sear until there are less than 4 adds.
Is it the way to cheese a parse at this point? No, however it generates the most effective dps for you, let the locks, rogues, kitties, and mages do the heavy lifting.

My raid's comp has me and a hunter as the ranged/AoE dps. We're sitting with a ret pally, a rogue, and dk for dps on 10-man. Tanks are a warrior and pally, with druid, shammy, and priest heals.

I've been trying to DoT up as many targets with SW: P and keep the primary series of DoT's rolling on Yor, but after I hit 3 or more adds, I have been switching to mind sear and refreshing DoT's as they exhaust on Yor. Even with the slimes, I try to position myself equidistant between the slime spawn and within range of Yor so I can drop DoT's on both. I haven't been doing the mind blast on Yor during that phase as I've been trying to help burn down the slime (this is on heroic... actually, I've been doing this on both actually now that I think about it).

Yeah. I have no interest in trying to fluff up my numbers. I only really care about two things: 1) killing the boss and 2) doing better than I did last time, reflected in #1. Getting a cheap dps increase for myself personally if it costs us the kill is not acceptable.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Exiledknight

You would want to ensure you refresh it with Power Torrent up, due to the length of the power torrent proc versus the length of your dots, it doesn't make sense to try and double up...unless you were in the process of refreshing when you got the proc. Typically all you want to do is ensure during that proc that you refresh.

Ok. Will keep this in mind tonight. I just have seen various procs from trinks and dark evang and try to make sure that the DoT's will benefit from these. I know Dark Evang is only a 5% increase... but hey... it's 5% when it's stacked up. The one trinket I had was a spellpower boost when it procc'ed .... somewhere around 1900, not insignificant.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Exiledknight

I would say the struggled a lot to hit 35k is bad(unless its a 10 man with no thought for balance)....I want to say our first Heroic Ultraxion kill was nearly 6 months ago and I never had an issue with 35k at all

Yeah. Sadly, I'm nowhere near 35k. I've just managed to ditch the last of my sub-378 gear this past week and am finally in a mix of LFR/VP/Normal DS gear or better. Right now sitting at 388 ilvl (took a 4-5 month break and playing catch up). Still have four 378 ilvl pieces, even after last week's upgrades. But, now I know what to shoot for. Yeah... I know, this is not optimal for running heroic, but let's be honest..... heroic isn't quite what it used to be. As it was, I was pushing around 20k at less than 388 ilvl (I think I was sitting at 383 ilvl last Tuesday).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Exiledknight

Refreshing DP verus MF= Bad

When you BL refresh dots immediately= bad if you have your 4 pc, because you should be lining it up with Bloodlust...technically bad even without 4pc because you ideally want to Potion>Archangel>beserking(if troll)>Shadowfiend before applying dots so that all those buffs factor into the blood lust period as well

If you BL at the start make sure to refresh dots=this is somewhat inconclusive....however I take refresh as meaning you already applied them so to me this is bad....empowered shadows is beyond easy to get up, simply start every encounter with Mind Flay...99.9% of the time you will have an orb before the first channel is done, Mind blast and apply dots, otherwise if you start the encounter with dots, you just wasted 3 or so GCD's for basically no damage, just to need to reapply 4-5 seconds later.

I originally thought along those same lines with mindflay... get empowered shadow up and get the DoT's rolling ASAP with that buff and a potion behind them. Problem was, I had found on more than one pull that I sometimes wouldn't get a single orb, even after 6+ ticks with mindflay. I even tried tacking on SW: P at the get-go to give myself a better proc rate. I understand it's RNG and that's kind of an "excuse" in a way, but when the benefit of the shadow orbs plays such a critical role in our performance, it really sucks. I've read some posts (Ask the Devs) where Blizzard explained it away as "it should feel like you're really getting a bonus when orbs proc"..... and it just makes me laugh.

Either way, this is great info and I'll be trying to apply it tonight in raid. Thank you.
07-24-2012, 10:27 PM
Exiledknight

Here is a video link to show my Ui which can maybe help you out

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G3OTTodKYD0

Any questions you have feel free to ask once you try some other things I will keep an eye out on this thread to help you out.
07-25-2012, 05:13 AM
Baltimore

I don't mind the criticism but comments like "This is all 100% wrong" and "Please let's try to not give out misinformation to players looking for help" are a bit harsh. Especially when they come several months after the thread was active.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Baltimore

Mind Flay is just a filler. Don't wait for it to finish, always try to interrupt it as soon as you have something better to cast, but try to interrupt it right after a tick.

This is true but I should have clarified what counts as a better spell. If Mind Blast comes off cooldown you shouldn't wait for MF to finish. If VT or DP is about to fall off you should interrupt MF to refresh it. Yes, MF is an important spell but in our priority system it is a filler.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Baltimore

A key to maximize dps is to make sure your dots tick as high as possible. If you get a proc from power torrent or lightweave (I see you're a tailor, but low skill), refresh your dots. Refreshing DP is always a good alternative to just casting MF, but VT shouldn't be refreshed too often.

When I wrote "Refreshing DP is always a good alternative to just casting MF" I was still on the subject of procs. It could have been written better, the word "always" shouldn't have been there. What I meant was that as soon as you get a proc, you can refresh DP and you can refresh DP again when the proc is about to fall off. VT on the other hand, I usually only refresh once during a proc. I think this is the best way.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Exiledknight

Regardless of when you lust you enter your 4pc rotation immediately on Ultraxion, because the first 45 seconds of the fight are the only 45 seconds you can be 100% sure that you will be able to fully use it and not be interrupted. BL just means you get more SF dmg, and more Mind spikes....at a time where you get increased Mind Spike dmg..

Yeah, alright, maybe so. I like starting a fight with MS/MB but I also very much like dotting during BL.
07-25-2012, 01:25 PM
Exiledknight

Quote:

Originally Posted by Baltimore

I don't mind the criticism but comments like "This is all 100% wrong" and "Please let's try to not give out misinformation to players looking for help" are a bit harsh. Especially when they come several months after the thread was active.

It is not a bit harsh when it is true, you gave out a ton of misinformation whether it was because you communicated poorly or more likely because you didn't know better. Yes it came almost two months after the last post, mainly because I rarely visit tankspot unless I am active in a thread for this exact reason. It is extremely easy to go back and say I didn't word it properly, or I was talking about this when the correct information was given out. One of the two biggest reasons tankspot has stopped growing and from the looks of it is dwindling is the massive amount of bad information being given. Maybe it was handed to you as bad information and you took it as correct, I don't know but when I can I am going to stop bad information being handed out. If you took it as harsh, so be it however it was not an attack or anything of the sort, just the truth.