I thought I'd read it here, but I can't see it... Prot warriors can choose to glyph their shield wall for the extra protection. It'll still be back up every third round due to the last defender buff, and that means everyone gets 30% from the set bonus. I'm not sure whether I'd choose to do this in 10 man - there, you might actually want to try to use the lower protection/higher frequency shield wall for more raid damage reduction - but in certain comps or in 25 man it might be worth doing.
I prefer pushing shieldwall every minute -> 20% less damage taken for everyone for 12s is noticeable especially if you line it up with another's block tanks raidcd.
We're going to be trying this tonight. Based on our raid makeup I assume the Resto Shammy's will not be taking an HoT. So that would leave the 2 Pallys; DK, Prot Warrior, Hunter Shadow Priest; Mage and Fury.
I'm assuming the Pallys in addition to DP (glyphed) can use their Bubbles; the Priest can Disperse and the Mage Ice Block. If we 2 heal one of the Shammys will go Ele.
Our raid make up will most likely be:
Hunters can take every (third) one, w/Deterrence on a 2m CD. Tanks can always take one as well, Glyphed DP means that your paladins should be able to (though 40% means they need to have 180k HP in order to take it...so if they DON'T, you'll need some flavor of external CD to cover them when they're not bubbled) to take every 3rd one as well...the spriest can disperse every 3rd one too...otherwise your mage can block one and your fury warrior (why isn't he arms?!) can take one w/shield wall (same 180k hp thing applies to him too) so:
1: DK tank + hunter
2: Warrior tank + holy pally (bubble)
3: Spriest + ret pally (bubble)
4: DK tank + hunter
5: Warrior tank + mage (block)
6: Spriest + ret/holy/fury (DP/DP/SW, probably want an external CD on him too, just in case...hand of sac works, rallying cry works too)
7: DK tank + hunter
For minimum amount of damage taken, that'd be about it. Hunter won't take any damage, the priest will only take 30k, the bubbles and block won't take any damage...which just leaves your tanks and whoever was taking #6 w/the priest taking "meaningful" damage from it. Also, I'd recommend 2 healing it...the damage isn't all that extreme until the end (you probably want to save 4 piece tank CDs for that), and the damage you gain by adding another DPS makes the fight significantly easier.
Probably the minimum amount of damage from Hour of Twilight would be a configuration like the what I listed below. One thing you definitely want to do is have your two best soakers (Hunter and Shadow Priest) using their CDs on the 7th Hour of Twilight (so also on 1 and 4) which will be the most healing intensive part of the fight.
The setup I list below wouldn't actually even require either of the tanks having their 4pc, but that would just be an added benefit for healing up the Cauterize damage on the 3rd Hour and would overall ease the damage taken by the raid during non-Hour of Twilight phases. Vampiric Blood could be used on the pull before the tanks gain Last Defender of Azeroth and then again just about every 30 seconds and lasts for 20 seconds, granting about 66% uptime. The Warrior could also use his Shield Wall/Rallying Cry on the pull and then for the second Hour of Twilight, fifth Hour of Twilight, and just after the 7 Hour of Twilight and followed by chaining Spirit Link Totems for the final burn.
1: Hunter(Deterrence) + Shadow Priest(Dispersion)
2: Holy Paladin(Divine Shield) + Warrior Tank(Shield Wall, Rallying Cry, and Hand of Sacrifice from Holy Paladin)
3: Fire Mage(Cauterize + Lay on Hand from Retribution Paladin) + Death Knight Tank(Anti-Magic Shell, Icebound Fortitude, Bone Shield, Dancing Rune Weapon, Vampiric Blood, and Intervene/Safeguard from Warrior Tank)
4: Hunter(Deterrence) + Shadow Priest(Dispersion)
5: Retribution Paladin(Divine Shield) + Warrior Tank(Shield Wall, Rallying Cry, and Hand of Sacrifice from Retribution Paladin)
6: Fire Mage(Ice Block) + Death Knight Tank(Anti-Magic Shell, Icebound Fortitude, Bone Shield, Dancing Rune Weapon, non-Glyphed Vampiric Blood, channel Army of the Dead, and Intervene/Safeguard from Warrior Tank)
7: Hunter(Deterrence) + Shadow Priest(Dispersion)
Thanks, this was helpful. We got it to 20%, but the dps was not there had some dps at 21k. The healing was not that bad at all, in fact it was pretty easy until after the 6th HoT, , but once we got to after the 6th HoT we still had 16 million and the damage was really ramping up.
This is our log from last night; the 5:30 try was our last one where we determined we just didn't have the dps to beat the enrage. I'm figuring we need her at about 8 million just after the 6th HoT - about 50% less than where we got her. At that point the damage is really ramping up and the burn has to be fast. I'm thinking that we should Hero just after the 5th HoT.
Ignore the first try, that was the pull that comes right after trash and we had not worked out a rotation. All in all we were not that upset with the attempts based on it being a first look. I think after Morchok this is the easiest fight on heroic so far.
Our RL wants to work on Haggra and this next week, personally I think we should do the Skittles boss and Ultra. Haggra's dance has a lot of steps that will take some practice.
Generally going much past 5:30 is going to be difficult for 10 mans...the damage becomes extremely difficult to manage with only two healers.
And yeah...your dps isn't up to that task. Your spriest, fury warrior and fire mage are WAY too low...even your hunter is skating the edge of acceptable dps...our RDPS for our first kill was 255377.2...62k more than your 5:30 attempt (we killed it at 5:29 with one of our healers having died a few seconds before the boss did). We killed it w/247380.9 RDPS once...5:39, our tanks did about 18k each, so the rest of our dps averaged a bit more than 35k each...your tanks were a bit lower, but not appreciably...so you should be looking for about 35-36k dps each from your DPS.
Yor'sahj is still a bit of a DPS check, but might be a bit more within reach...Hagara is a bit of an execution check, moreso than a DPS one, so that might be a better place to go too.
Ultraxion is simple enough to execute, but the throughput checks are fairly serious. Looks like your healers, at least, are up to it though.
Thanks, Ion. I think it's a easy fight once you get people hitting the correct buttons. Also, dps needs to get used to getting out that last bit of damage before hitting the button.
The Shadow Priest is actually our other Shammy healer so he brought the alt for the dps. The mage was saying that the RNG gods were against him, just couldn't get Hot Streaks proc'ing and the warrior is fairly new. So we knew going in we were going to have issues. On a more upbeat note, we got some good drops on the rest of the run - hunter got 4 piece finally; which should help.
Glad you said the 35k dps is about where we should be that was my take on it and our RL thought we could be closer to 28k and have a shot.
Now that I've seen it, I can heal it - I mean I'm not great or anything, but once I get a feel for the rhythm of the damage it makes a big difference in heals chosen and mana used. I'm the pally healing and I took the green then the blue gem. The healing until about the 5 min mark is really pretty easy, then all hell breaks loose. I thought it would be a lot more difficult the whole fight.
We're going after HM 10 Ultrax tonight and considering one of 2 setups for it.
OR Setup 2:
Pros and cons:
Setup 1: Prot Pally is less geared, and: Is Resto Druid/Disc priest combo good enough?
Setup 2: Feral cat is less geared so his dps will be <30k. Average dps others is ~35k, so a 5-7k dps loss compared to setup 1.
Any thoughts on Setup 1 vs 2?
Either way soakers will be 2 tanks, rogue, fire mage, ret - and either hunter (setup 1) or H Pally or Feral (setup 2).
And does having the H Pally soak interfere with his heals too much?
Thanks in advance!
35k is about what you need to kill it, on average...so losing DPS is probably a bad idea.
Originally Posted by Straif
Rogue and hunter can take every one (for "every 3rd" values of "every one", as has been mentioned in this thread previously), so that's a pretty good setup regardless...leaves you with the ret and fire mage to soak up the remainder though:
2: Prot Pally/Ret (w/glyphed DR + raidwall, perhaps)
3: Rogue/Fire Mage (cauterize)
5: Prot/Ret (w/bubble)
6: Rogue/Fire Mage (Ice block)
Saving your immunities for the end when healing is more intense. As for healing, my understanding is that green works best for resto druids, blue is amazing for PoH-spam for Disc (plus in the beginning when the damage isn't a big deal the disc priest can smite spam for extra damage)...green is less good for disc, unfortunately, than it is for h-pallies though. Shouldn't be a big deal though, he'll have blue for the REALLY serious part.
You could also try and use Bloodlust at the pull and have the healers Heroic Will out. Then at the end of the fight use it again for the healers. Also, one of the healers(probably the Resto shammy) could do small amounts of DPS for the first minute or so of the fight.
Originally Posted by Theotherone
We had just gotten Hagara and we like to compare it to Alysrazor from T12. Lots of mechanics, but once you get them down it's not a huge deal. Try to aim to take off about 15% hp per damage phase and you shouldn't have enrage problems.
If you're going after Ooze, we found it 100x easier to just kill Yellow, if no Yellow then Black. We run a more melee set up, so Green + Red doesn't bother us that much. Something to try :D
Finally got this yesterday, and thought I'd note: If you do glyph SW then it's best to be in the 2nd group of soakers, and if you trigger your shield wall early for hour of twilight (it's got a 24s duration, so you can comfortably pop it 10s before hour of twilight is cast) then it'll be back up around the soft enrage. A raid wide 24s 30% damage reduction around then is huge. Again, probably more a 25 than 10 man thing where coordinating raid cooldowns to push into the soft enrage is a bigger part of the encounter.
Originally Posted by swelt