How to deal with problem GM

Hey everyone, I hope you can help me out a little bit with the problem I'm having in my guild.
I'm not getting on well with the GM - in fact we don't get on at all.

The GM of my guild is a tough person to get on with, he doesn't seem to have fun playing the game - whenever I ask Guildies if they're excited for tonight's raid everyone usually replies positively, unlike the GM who's usual reply is along the lines of "This isn't fun, I just want the guild to finish this content before 4.3". Great. You might guess how positive and happy everyone is after that comment.

Another problem that me and some of the other Guildies are having is with his attitude. He isn't nice. Oh no.
A good example is during our FL raid (this was while I was still on "Trial"), after an item dropped, which I should have gotten according to my roll and EPGP priority, he basically told me to forget about getting any items when I'm on Trial. When I protested, saying that not only did I not received a single piece of loot in 2 weeks (been with the guild for 3 weeks, got necklace of Ryio 1st week as nobody else rolled, 100% attendance), he basically said if i don't STFU I'm getting the boot. I also try to give people heads up on what they did wrong in a fight, for example, waves on Raggy, after saying that someone didn't move out of the wave, I was told not to tell others what to do (by the GM), I was just trying to help out so that it doesn't happen again. I've been in a number of different online communities over the years, mainly Battlefield and CounterStrike, and I have never experienced that kind of immature and rude behavior from the clan leader.



I'm not the one having problems with the GM, oh no, just today I was talking to a Guildie who is considering leaving because of him. Don't get me wrong - I like my guild. I enjoy playing with them and I have fun. However the GM just ruins and undoes all of the positive aspects of it.

I'm not sure if I should stick around or leave, any help would be great!

Quote:

---

I was told not to tell others what to do (by the GM),

---

you should of said "oh really? maybe your the one who needs to stfu or your getting the boot dumbass"

Being on some sort of trial period in which you are not entitled to loot is not uncommon. If you don't like things you can always leave. In my guild if some new guy was talking on vent and it's supposed to be quiet they would get chewed out by my GM. My GM is fantastic but he's also not so light-hearted about not progressing. If I were you I would either shut up and deal or leave.

wouldn't that just get me kicked? :s

Quote:

---

he basically said if i don't STFU I'm getting the boot. I also try to give people heads up on what they did wrong in a fight, for example, waves on Raggy, after saying that someone didn't move out of the wave, I was told not to tell others what to do (by the GM), I was just trying to help out so that it doesn't happen again

---

This is actually pretty standard for WoW guilds. Complaining about loot is a no-no, and most raid leaders don't like other people trying to co-lead with them over vent. Just how the community is.

Edit: If you wanna form a relationship with a GM, raid time is usually not the time to do so. They're probably extremely busy during raid time. Get to know them outside of raid time.

1. Raiding fun differs. For some it's just to kill some time and may be some bosses. For some it's to make server 1st kill. Seems like you and your gm have different distinction of fun.
2. Loot rules. Some guilds (usually the worst ones with dictatorship model) dont give any loot to trials. And talking about loot while being a trial just shows them that you care more about loot than guild progression.
3."Helping" ppl. There's the raid leader for this. You may just whisper. Any other way it looks like you're trying to show how awsome you are and preventing raid leader from doing his/her job right.

So. All in all, knowing just what you said - it's not the guild for you. You should look for less grim/progression minded guild. Look for more social/light hearted one. Next time try to find all these things out before you'll join the guild and know that's gm = guild.

Quote:

---

2. Loot rules. Some guilds (usually the worst ones with dictatorship model) dont give any loot to trials. And talking about loot while being a trial just shows them that you care more about loot than guild progression.

---

I feel this is a bit of an unfair statement. Some guilds have simply come to the decision that trials only get loot if it would otherwise be disenchanted or vendored because they have had trials quit as soon as they got a couple of items, thus wasting the items that a member would otherwise have used and kept in the guild for the benefit of the raid.

Before Cata, I used to play on a different account and character, It was during the start of Ulduar.
I was in a guild that seemed perfect - everyone seemed equally skilled, so we had good progression, while even on progression nights the GM and officers would crack jokes and usually lighten the mood up. As far as i remember, we have never had any problems - GM and members wise. Long story short, I had to quit the game and get on with some other stuff for a bit, when I came back, the guild was no more. Oh and we raided 3 nights a week.

This guild that i am in currently is not going to be server first any time soon. We raid 2 nights a week - Friday and Tuesday (perhaps worst day), and we still haven't downed normal Raggy. Please don't tell me I should look for a guild that is less "serious", as like I said I've been in competitive gaming environments where one minute we're yelling at each other over TeamSpeak, and the next we're making jokes. Don't get me wrong - like I said before, I get on well with everyone in the guild, officers included. Even the person I happened to correct thanked me as they forgot that mechanic.

Sorry, Earthsworn, but the fact that you get on well with everybody exept of gm means nothing - namely gm defines what his/her guild looks like. So what you can do is:
1. To try to understand gm's psycological type and get on with him well. He seems too grim and tough to you? Know that you seems too talkative and overreacting to him. :) And so on.
2. To take all ppl you like and create a new guild. But be prepared that ppl who were against gm in private channel would be totaly not in guild chat. :)
3. To look for another guild which suits you more than your current. The patch is coming, you're not too deep in FL - so what's your loss?


@ Fetzie
Guild rules are guild rules - if you joined the guild you've agreed with the rules. Every guild is different and there's nothing to talk about. But, I for one, consider such loot sharing to be unfair. If a trial was participating in the kill - he's got the right for loot like anybody else. Otherwise your trials feel not like part of the team but more like slaves or exiled.

But a trial isn't really part of the team. They become part of the team when they are promoted to "raider" (or whatever the guild calls the rank). The point of a trial period is to give the guild time to decide if they want the newbie to stay in the raid (and to give the newbie time to decide if they want to stay). If I don't know whether a player will still be with us in three weeks time, I'm not giving him/her an item that a raider who has been with the raid for months or years really needs.

Obviously, the GM's grumpy because he has a splitting headache from banging it on the elementium wall known as Ragnaros for who knows how long before you joined. That can really play merry hell with someone's morale. If you know you can be "that guy" that pushes the guild past regular Ragnaros and into heroic, SHOW IT! I'm not saying they're right to be rude, just that it's totally understandable.

Loot issues: I tend to agree with Fetzie on this - If it's going to be sharded by the core group, but the fresh fish can upgrade and be more helpful, new booty gets a new piece of gear. Otherwise, you're SOL. That's how I would run a guild myself, regardless of loot system. I would have the decency to explain this when you joined, and again if an issue came up. It would also be in whispers, without threats.. or entertaining further objections.

Trying to help the team: Just do so in whispers, kindly. That way when the GM reams their corn hole for eating waves they don't feel like they're catching it in both ends.

Threats to /gkick you: Either take it in stride at the time and approach the GM later in whispers calmly (maybe even apologetic if the guildies are that awesome) or tell him that there's no need for threats, thank him for the opportunity, and dip out. It's ok to have negative feelings (ie: That guy's a dick!) but don't pop jaw about him on your next app or in trade chat and create useless drama.

The likelihood of starting a new guild if you leave: It sounds like poaching, AKA a punk move, because it is.. but ask the other guild member that's already mentioned leaving if they would like to help start the new guild. Discuss the guild's focus, loot rules, etc THOROUGHLY before even grabbing a charter. Perhaps even before typing /gquit.

It isn't necessarily a bad GM or a bad guild. Everything is a matter of your own perspective.

It's a bad GM for you.
It's a bad guild for you.

That's all it really comes down to. Not everyone in the game is going to get along. It isn't our (the community's) place to pass judgement on you or the GM or the guild because it has nothing to do with us. You don't have to put up with them and they don't have to put up with you. If you don't belong there, leave. And this is why you have trial periods, not everyone works out. It looks like you will not work out for them and they will not work out for you.


In regard to rules...
Once you click that "Accept" button to the invite. You agreed to the rules. End of discussion on that matter.

@charon, we've been on raggy for 2 weeks - not more.

@Quinafoi - i've talked to him more since the raid and we've started to get on much much better, the trial thing was a one off like i said

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Fetzie

But a trial isn't really part of the team. They become part of the team when they are promoted to "raider" (or whatever the guild calls the rank). The point of a trial period is to give the guild time to decide if they want the newbie to stay in the raid (and to give the newbie time to decide if they want to stay). If I don't know whether a player will still be with us in three weeks time, I'm not giving him/her an item that a raider who has been with the raid for months or years really needs.

---

This is 100% true! While yes the trial was there for the kill in most cases unless its progression you can drag and carry anyone(not saying this is the case at all, just using an analogy). If the trial isnt there next week then you just wasted a peice of loot that could have gone to someone who you knew would be there. I have a set rule trials do not get loot over a raiders MS unless instructed specifically otherwise(i.e. we had to gear up a new resto druid quick for H Rag since ours was having health issues). Previous to being a GM that was the only thing I cared about when looking into a guild was that trials got the left overs, giving items based off ep/gp dkp etc to a trial who fails or leaves does nothing but hurt the guild.

@ Fetzie, Charon and Exiledknight
I see you point guys very clearly. And you know what - you all are totally right.
But.

We are talking about 6/7 regular mode guild. It's sure not the best place for loot council. A casual raiding guild with hardcore rules just makes harm to itself. And the same stuff can be done in different ways. Saying "No loot to a trial" you kill the morale and put trials aside. Saying " Loot's shared according to our loot system" you give trials team spirit right away, will to come to raids to get more points and some perspective and goal to go to. Any system - DKP or anything else will do. Just tune it in the right way so that precious loot will never get to those hated and useless trials who leave anyway next day they get Tier shoulders. :)
Keep in mind - we play with human beings and they are a bit different from machines.

@ Earthsworn - Well, glad you seem to have gotten things resolved with the GM, and hopefully you made the team. Also, the raiding/wiping, and just now having taken a few shots at Rags could have produced the grumpy mood, especially if it isn't a new guild.

@ Icebreaker - Obviously our definition of casual differs. In my eyes, attitude is more the determination than the progression attempts.

Hardcore: "We aren't giving up on this boss until our eyes bleed or he's dead. Yes, the verbal beatings will get worse if you keep standing in fire."
Casual: "Ha! You stood in the fire again, tardo. What do you think guys? Call it for the night, repair, and go do something else? Or should we take a couple more shots at this?"

Also, I stick by my loot rules stated above: If it's just gonna get sharded and the trial player can use it, enjoy! if an already established player can use it, they get it for main spec. I'd rather gear a trial's main spec than anyone's off set or put a shard in the guild bank.

I think the main point is this. A guild wants raiders that show up each and every week. They don't want raiders who are loot whores who care nothing about the guild. So it's simple. For a few weeks they don't take new members that seriously. After 2-3 weeks if the new person showed on time, seems cool, and stays relatively quiet most new members gain status and then can get loot. If you are new and bitching about things then you don't get it. Most guilds and GM's will stay very focused on progression even if not all of the members are that concerned about it. All GM's don't want to lose those members that are good raiders who actually do care about progression so they cater to them.