T13 Warrior Revengeabsorb.

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• 10-22-2011, 09:35 AM
zentok
T13 Warrior Revengeabsorb.
Hi there. I did some maths to this bonus from the next tier, to analyse the potential from Expertiserating and Hitrating.
I´m sure I could have done some mistakes and I hope your could correct me. (my english is not the best one sorry for that)

My formula:
[t/5-(t/5*(0.285-0.xxx))-1]*AvgDmg*0.2

t= Fighttime
5= Revenge CD
0.285= 28.5% chance of Revenge to miss at 0% Hit,Exp (14%parry, 6,5% dodge, 8% miss)
0.xxx= gained Exp and Hit (maximum at 0.285)
AvgDmg= Average damage from Revenge (I took 15k)
0.2= The 20% from the T13 bonus.
-1 = The last Revenge, which woudln´t absorb anything in the math, because the fight is over.

So i calculated an example:
Fighttime 390 seconds. 0 Exp and Hit. 15k AvgDmg.

The amount of Revenche in the fight:
390/5= 78

The amount of Revenges that doesn´t hit the target:
390/5*0.285= 22.23

Actually the hitting Revenges:
78-22.23= 55.77 -1 = 54,77

The average absorb from the bonus (took a 15k Revenge average dmg):
15000*0.2= 3000

Overallabsorb in the whole 390 seconds of fighting:
3000*54,77= 164310

Result of a math:
At a fictitious fight of 390 seconds, where a tank is permanently at the boss and gets every cooldown of Revenge, the amount of the absorbed damage is 164310.

Here are my results of the influence of Expertise and Hitrating:
Without any Hit and Exp = 164310 Absorb
Max Exp/Hit = 234000 Absorb

Exp Softcap at 0% Hit = 197730 Absorb
A absorbgain of 33420 at 781 Exptertiserating. This results in a 1285 absorb per 1 point of expertise or per 30.xxx rating. This will change after the softcap is reached.

0 EXP at 8%Hit = 186030 Absorb
A absorbgain of 21720 at 961 Hitrating. This results in ~22.60 absorb per Hitrating

So now my questions. Did I do anything wrong or are my number and formula correct?

Big Thanks and so long Zentok

P.S.: I skipped the optional misses of the boss, that wouldn´t get Revenge to procc and the be able to use, because i think is a significant low chance, that you gain 2 misses after another (swingtimer 2 seconds) and i had no clue how to add this chance of the 2 misses.
• 10-23-2011, 05:18 AM
zentok
Is everything right in my maths of the t13 bonus? Or does no one care about the bonuss of then next tier? :P
• 10-23-2011, 05:30 AM
Charon
That's pretty awesome that you took the time out to do the math. Thank you! Though honestly from the looks of things, by use of your formula (right, wrong, or otherwise.. I don't care enough to check math for a video game lol), that's the equivalent of what.. 3-6 melee hits, or a couple big ones without cds? Not too inspiring, imo. I understand that ANY mitigation helps the healers, but this just doesn't seem to be powerful enough. DK tanks get that NOW with a dozen or so death strikes if I'm not too far off my guess. In my gear, I'd have to spam death strike for an HOUR STRAIGHT lmao.
• 10-23-2011, 06:21 AM
Tengenstein
Zentok, its great that you've taken the time to maths this out, but for sometime now revenge has been Diet Devastate, and we don't really care about the rage saving as things tend to hit us hard enough that rage isn't an issue and Devastate just hits so much harder, that you can safely drop Imp.Rev from your build and Revenge from you action bars and not lose sleep over it. 420HPS makes this slightly more useful than Bloodcraze on a single target fight.
• 10-23-2011, 07:13 AM
Airowird
Quote:

Originally Posted by zentok
Hi there. I did some maths to this bonus from the next tier, to analyse the potential from Expertiserating and Hitrating.
I´m sure I could have done some mistakes and I hope your could correct me. (my english is not the best one sorry for that)

My formula:
[t/5-(t/5*(0.285-0.xxx))-1]*AvgDmg*0.2

t= Fighttime
5= Revenge CD
0.285= 28.5% chance of Revenge to miss at 0% Hit,Exp (14%parry, 6,5% dodge, 8% miss)
0.xxx= gained Exp and Hit (maximum at 0.285)
AvgDmg= Average damage from Revenge (I took 15k)
0.2= The 20% from the T13 bonus.
-1 = The last Revenge, which woudln´t absorb anything in the math, because the fight is over.

You could also just do (0.715+0.XXX)*AvgDmg to take hit/exp into account.
Secondly, you assume 5s between Revenge uses, while it realisticly is atleast 6 and with priorities closer to 7.5.
That means you do 2 Revenge every 15s instead of 3 (33.33% less HPS)

Quote:

So i calculated an example:
Fighttime 390 seconds. 0 Exp and Hit. 15k AvgDmg.

The amount of Revenche in the fight:
390/7.5= 52

The average absorb from the bonus (took a 15k Revenge average dmg):
0.715*15000*0.2= 2145

Overallabsorb in the whole 390 seconds of fighting:
2145*52 = 111540

Result of a math:
At a fictitious fight of 390 seconds, where a tank is permanently at the boss and gets every cooldown of Revenge, the amount of the absorbed damage is 111540. The HPS gain is 286.
Fixed the numbers in bold/italic for you.

Hit & Expertise:
2 Expertise (pre-softcap) = 1% Hit = 30 absorb * 52 attacks = 1560 extra absorb (4HPS)

1 Hit Rating = 1%Hit / 120.1088 => 12.988 absorb (0.0333 HPS)
1 Exp Rating = 2 Exp / (2*30.0272) => 25.976 (0.0666 HPS)

Maxing out hit/exp you can hit about 400 HPS with 15k Revenges, so even in full heroic gear and trying to get Revenge in more, you'll be lucky to hit 500 HPS over an entire fight. Unfortunately, this a) isn't enough to make speccing into Imp Revenge viable again, b) The shield is fluctuating between non-connects, normals and crits, making it unreliable (and we don't want that) and c)is reduced to a fraction of that number in usefulness, because most of the shields will be wasted once healers top you up after a spike.
The only time it is useful will be if you actually would have died from <3k overkill on a boss and even then it has to happen frequently enough for you to consider dropping 2 talent points somewhere else (and the awesome Glyph of Slam!) just to complicate your rotation more. Personally, I will not be looking towards getting this specific bonus, but instead aim for stat allocation and 'simply' run around with a completely unused set bonus if the set pieces happen to actually be the optimal pieces for me (and drop before I take up temporary upgrades)

1) Your forgot GCD rotation & priorities (SS & BnT > Rend)
2) We care about it being something useful rather than what it is now.
• 10-24-2011, 12:00 AM
zentok
Thanks @ Airowird.

I know that the bonus ist not useful at all (well anicce to have but the gain is really low), even with my wrong numbers: (234000-164310)/390= 178.69hps increase with expertise and hitcap. I just wanted to see if my maths were correct, because my last time I used to math in WoW was in Burnigng Crusade. (longtime inactivity)
• 10-24-2011, 05:25 AM
Tengenstein
it's not that the bonus is not useful, the Abiltiy it's tied to isn't either.
• 10-24-2011, 07:04 AM
Airowird
Quote:

Originally Posted by Tengenstein
it's not that the bonus is not useful, the Abiltiy it's tied to isn't either.

This.

I don't even have it on my main bar anymore (it's in a corner next to Slam & Shattering Throw), so if I ever get 2pT13 it'll be completely useless to me.
• 12-22-2011, 06:40 AM
swelt
So now people have experienced this, how is it looking? I have to be honest, I totally forgot about the bonus and didn't put revenge back on my bars (let alone spec into improved revenge). Is it worth doing either or both of those things?
• 12-22-2011, 07:06 AM
Wow, I just saw how much avg damage both abilities do in skada, I never thought to look since coming back to the game. Guess it's time to un-talent revenge...Seems pointless now. 2pc is definitely lackluster and if available I'd instead use 2pc heroic t12. However at 4pc the set becomes op at 384.
• 12-22-2011, 07:57 AM
swelt
Well that's just it: 4 pc is awesome, there are times in every encounter where I think it's valuable and I can't see myself taking it off. So there's a 2 pc bonus which is 'some survival' and which is essentially free, and there are plenty of bosses that do hit quite hard (at least in 25 man, the 10 man ones seem a bit wimpy).
• 12-22-2011, 08:37 AM
Outbackjack
I've been trying it out and was gonna look at my logs tonight to see what I'm getting over the course of a fight. It still seems underwhelming and not worth speccing into Improved Revenge.
• 12-22-2011, 09:11 AM
Tengenstein
I'm in some weird place that the DPE of Rev and Dev are about the same at max vengeance and recently acquired the two piece, so I went in to DS10 last night and according WoL on the first 5 boss kills it was making up 1.1% of my healing recieved with an average absorb of 3.1k.
• 12-22-2011, 10:14 AM
Pruke
I am seeing the same thing as Teng. Anyhow I also checked some armories of other warriors like Xav and noticed they are specing into imp revenge. Not enough to go on atm.
• 12-22-2011, 10:44 AM
Outbackjack
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...0u8/details/1/

I'm averaging a 1.8k shield from the absorb Shield of Fury without having Improved Revenge in my spec. Although surprisingly my Revenge average hit is about 10k compared to my Devastate average hit of 12k. I was expecting a much bigger divide.
• 12-22-2011, 11:28 AM
Tengenstein
Quote:

Originally Posted by outbackjack
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...0u8/details/1/

I'm averaging a 1.8k shield from the absorb Shield of Fury without having Improved Revenge in my spec. Although surprisingly my Revenge average hit is about 10k compared to my Devastate average hit of 12k. I was expecting a much bigger divide.

The difference is in in DPE not the hits: with the talent Rev may hit harder, but Dev crits 20% more often, leading to a much bigger difference that simply looking at the damage on a hit by hit basis. This is even further pronounced with Deep wounds.
• 12-26-2011, 07:26 AM
gom
I'd like to quote Airowird on that:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Airowird
• a) isn't enough to make speccing into Imp Revenge viable again
• b) The shield is fluctuating between non-connects, normals and crits, making it unreliable (and we don't want that)
• c)is reduced to a fraction of that number in usefulness, because most of the shields will be wasted once healers top you up after a spike

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pruke
Anyhow I also checked some armories of other warriors like Xav and noticed they are specing into imp revenge.

It's "dangerous" to assume revenge would be ok because a tank from a pro guild does spec into revenge. They are progressing at Spine so they cut 2-3 healers to meet the dps check. so maybe the 2PC comes in handy for such a situation but that does not mean its good for everyone

I'd like to see some hps numbers though with every self heal mechanic which we can get in this tier: 2PC, Souldrinker, Blood Craze, Mending.

That would be interesting.
• 12-26-2011, 07:47 AM