prot spec ideas
I've read all the threads I can find, and I'm not new to prot but I did have some questions. I check out how other prot warriors spec and I'm a little confused due to all the variations I've seen. I know there is some flexibility in these specs but some of them seem wrong based on our current patch. There are two specs which make sense to me. The first is:
To me the above spec is the piercing howl spec. Kiting adds on nef spec.
Then there is this spec:
I consider this the highest possible singe target threat spec.
Am I missing something? I've read many things saying that gag order isn't worth specing into at all and that deep wounds>thunderstruck.
You don't need PH often, while it's very useful wherever it helps. But you need to AoE often enough. And at least before heroic raids you don't need all the singe target threat of the second spec. So if you only have one spec (and maybe doing 5mans) you may want to have more focus on AoE than on either single target or utility. That may be a reason to get DW and thunderstruck but skip some incite or cruelty for example.
Others use Gag Order a lot in 5mans and want to take that. Again others swear on Safeguard or Impending Victory for different reasons.
If you are just looking for cockie cutter builds, take the second one and be happy with it. If you are looking for the right spec for what you are doing, consider every possible talent and pick the ones that cater the most to your situation.
It isn't that Gag Order is bad, it's that by the time you are at nearly all 346 gear, you don't really need it anymore. It can help in heroics, but unless you have the luxuary of a heroic dungeon only tank spec, it doesn't give you much. In a raid it's not useful because you'll have all the CC you need for trash and bosses are typically immune to the silence component. Does it make heroics that much easier? Yes. Is it absolutely required after you gear? No. That's the deal with gag order.
Deep Wounds > I think any other threat talent except maybe Heavy Repercussions. So if you're building a max-threat build, it's good to take. However for a kiting build, you're not going to crit much - you're not using HS and SS and Dev as much since you're usually dealing with a group of adds, which makes Thunderstruck, which buffs Rend and Shockwave every time more attractive.
Like Kat says:
Though I wouldn't skip incite for DW - as those two go together very nicely.
Originally Posted by Katzazi
This is the core of why we had the thread that went on forever about more than dual-specs. Because DPS occasionally might need to spec into a talent or two here or there for a fight to perform optimally, but as a tank, you literally can swap specs every fight:
Imagine if you're the OT for BWD, it's not out of the realm of possibilities that you'd start with Magmaw add tanking -> Omni more of a tradtional single-target -> Malorik back to adds -> Chi, maybe safeguard OT-ing -> Atradmedes -> DPS -> Nef you need a hit set single target and then hybrid kiting.
I'm not trying to start that thread up again - just pointing out how different a tank's role can be between each fight - so you can't really say "THIS" is the right spec. It's going to be based on the needs of your raid.
That being said - the two specs you listed are the most common spec setups for the roles you mentioned. Just remember, nothing's set in stone :D
No one likes gag order anymore....might just be me, but i would consider cutting the cd on your only ranged aggro ability in half to be pretty important. If your an add tank on boss fight especially, taunt rarely brings loose adds back with all the dot's that tend to be flying around. I love it for pulling single caster adds back from the cc'd packs in bot also.
What you neglect to mention is the end result is still a 30 second CD, and while HT does hit for a crapton, there are usually more than 2 adds, making what you do in the in-between 30 seconds more important than having a 30 second CD instead of 60 second.
Originally Posted by Leverage
You've got charge and Heroic Leap for range if you have an add get away, but what you do before they get away is more important. Also, with Vig on the MT, you've got all the taunts you need, just make sure that if one starts to run away you hit a few times when you grab it back (or if it's pesky, chart it and SS it).
No doubt the silience on HT is useful in heroics depending on the raid comp, but in BoT? With a full raid, if you don't have CCs covered, youv'e got bigger problems.
So... Are 2 talent points that really don't give you much in a 30 second HT versus 60 second and the ability to silience pull caster adds that the raid should already be CC-ing worth it?
Not to me. I can see the value in a heroics tank set, but not a raid set. Those 2 points, unless it's a pure add spec (in which case you might value it... but low), it's not wroth giving up cruelty or incite or deep wounds or anything else.
Imo, unless you want to have a second spec just for trash... do not choose talent points based on trash clearing. Talents for boss fights are so much more important, trash isn't that hard.
Imo: http://www.wowhead.com/talent#LG0cZZIfGzMRobbu is the base generic cookie cutter spec. You'll notice there are two points floating. I personally have them in cruelty because honestly with how much vigilance has been nerfed, the only real use it has is if you for some reason need infinite taunts on a boss fight when you're not the MT and can toss it on the MT to pick up adds easier. The only fight this is really beneficial on is Maloriak, and frankly you have enough tools to pick up the adds effectively without those points.
If for some reason you LOVE gag order, then throw the two extra points in there, or if you need safeguard, then spec into that instead, otherwise throw those points into cruelty for more threat.
The vengeance benefit of vigilance is also kinda moot right now, if you're tanking a lot of adds, chances are you either are already vengeance capped, or if you're only single targeting 1 thing, then MT isn't going to be giving you vengeance, or you won't need t he vengeance to hold threat, or if you have it on a greedy dps, 1 hit and 1 taunt doesn't really matter as far as the... ya whatever I'm rambling now, but you get my point. I feel like vigilance these days is as circumstantial as gag order and safeguard, and frankly is not needed in current raids. Neither myself or my roommate (my guild's current MT since my main is now a warlock and aggathon is my alt now) spec into conc blow/vigilance
As for PH spec: the only time I've seen it used effectively is add kiting on Maloriak, and frankly it's not necessary in normal, and you can do it in heroic, but it's kinda up to the raid what strat you want to use, and you really don't NEED to use PH, but it is an option. DO NOT USE PH FOR NEFARIAN!!! Unless you are a god with timing, slowing the adds will only hurt you because it means your adds get hit with shadowflame early and you're effed. At the very beginning after the first shadowflame, sure maybe it's nice to kite them a little, but at that point they don't have very much power and they aren't doing much damage anyways. As they get more of the energy buff, they get a runspeed increase, and even while slowed they catch up to you. It is far more important that you time the shaodwlfame stuff correctly and move the adds at the right time, you're just going to have to be healed through it, and the slowing effect of piercing howl for that fight just isn't worth picking up. I would argue at best it's a wash, at worst it is detrimental to add tanking in P3.
prot spec ideas
I love gag order. And no, I don't think I have to give up very much to get it. It's more useful in the times I do use it than another talent would be in the times I don't.
Originally Posted by Leverage