Geming

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Originally Posted by Deathwish238

Of course after less than a minute, Vengeance ramped up enough and the issue was moot...but it's still...not what I prefer.

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I'm wondering here. You say here that you don't like DPS pulling off of you at the beginning of fights, so THAT'S why you use a lot of Hit/Expertise, so tell me: what use does that Hit/Expertise do for you after your Vengeance has ramped up, and please, don't tell me that it lends to your DPS, because seriously, the difference is not enough to make or break a Boss Kill. If a Boss dies at 1% because YOU weren't doing enough DPS, then it's not your fault, it's your DPS/healers.

Mastery > Parry >= Dodge is the way to go, because, while expertise and hit are useful at the beginning of a fight, their usefulness drops to null shortly after the beginning of the fight. The avoidance/mitigation stats of dodge, parry, and mastery are useful throughout the fight.

And btw, you are gimping yourself extremely by not having at least 77.4 Dodge+Parry+Block+Miss. If you don't have this, your shield block is not nearly as useful as it could be.

Totaly agree with all above, but... When your rend misses three times in a row at the very begining of multipull - it's a kind of frustrating:)
Just my 2 cents to share the situation I've experienced.

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Originally Posted by edeesis

what use does that Hit/Expertise do for you after your Vengeance has ramped up, and please, don't tell me that it lends to your DPS, because seriously, the difference is not enough to make or break a Boss Kill.

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Every piece of the metagame has it's own, unique use and it really feels very underwhelming having your dps to not go all out for 30s or more and totally rely on vengeance to kick in and provide the required tps to do your job.
Take heroic Atramedes for example, if you miss one or even two (not unlikely with over 25% chance to not land an attack with zero hit/expertise) shield slams in a row your 372 geared fury/rets will pull aggro especially on 10 man with no tricks/md/thorns present.. A fury can even sunder to three, apply demoshout and thunderclap/rend before he starts raging and still conquer for the crown thanks to not having any aggro reduce tool at all.

Warrior (and Feral to a lesser extent due to Berserk) pulling/initial aggro toolset feels very clunky right now. Having HR providing 100% chance to land on top of the increased damage could change this.

Sure, there will be encounters on heroic mode, where it's important that everybody can go full out right from the start.

However there are enough, where survivability and/or execution is much more important. For example you have to time when you hit the last phase at Chimäeron and Maloriak. You have to time when to blow down Conclave and Council elementals. You need controlled high dmg for that, not just max dmg full out. And you will save big dmg CDs for special moments during those encounters, and not blow them right at the beginning. Some of those encounters could be dangerous to the tanks. So it's probably not good to focus on threat stats as much for them (exception council, because of break before last phase, but if done right, its not especially dangerous for the tank).

Artramedes (and others) are not as dangerous for the tank. So it's less important to have high survivability there. And you may want to go full out really early. So threat during the first 30s may be important enough to go for more hit/expertise on those encounters. But you probably don't need to gem for them, if you have some pieces of gear to switch in and switch over food and elexiers or maybe do minor reforgings.

Remember it's only for the first part of the encounter. And there are only "few" people who would surpass you then. When they overtake you, they are fine until they don't reach 110% of your threat (which can happen quite easily with some crits/proccs). But even then, it's ok, if you can ensure that the boss never hits anybody else via a taunt. It may be close for a while, but "close" is enough if everybody can controll themselves.