Victory rush grossly OP?

Glyphed Victory Rush is healing for astronomical amounts. I'm getting 30K+ heals on my prot warrior, enabling me to pull 10-15+ mobs and easily end up with 100% health (focus down lowest health mob, victory rush, repeat). I ended up leveling to 85 without ever eating to restore health or having any kind of down time. In dungeons I've noticed one victory rush can take me from 60% health to nearly full (that's with 120K unbuffed).

I never thought I'd see the day that my prot warrior beats out my Prot Pally in terms of aoe grinding and self heals. An easy solution is to have a small internal CD for victory rush procs.

The irony here is victory rush is next to useless in raids, meaning that other tank self heals such as pallys (using their 3 holy power self heal on themselves) and dk's vastly outperform us in this area. If they could lower the base heal and perhaps enable it to proc outside of killing a mob (I don't consider only being able to use it.. talented for 2 points.. below 20%.. with a low proc rate... a very good solution either).

So in a way it's both OP and underpowered at the same time. Any other prot warriors have thoughts on this?

Try playing a blood dk if you think VR is OP.

How is it OP? You get 1 shot at it for each mob you land a killing blow on it. Most other tanks get to heal themselves semi-regularly. Word of CGlory, Imp LotP, Death Strike. Even in Heroics usually when I get the opportunity to use it, it's when I need it the least. Some mob has died, the damage pressure on me is now reduced, often I'm at 90% HP, and the victory rush is pretty much wasted. I think it's fine as is.

Read the post before you jump to conclusions. Victory rush certainly seems OP in terms of aoe grinding. I could pull as many as 15-20 mobs and end up wth full health (while mixing in some cd's). If I blew up one of the mobs before I hit 50% health I pretty much won. It seems broken to me to allow any class to do this.

And yes Victory Rush loses it's luster on boss fights, and small trash packs, which is precisely my point. You have an ablity that's OP in one place but almost comically bad where it really counts. If they lowered the amount it healed I'm hoping blizz would give us more chances to use it in progression content.

http://www.wowhead.com/spell=80129

It still sucks.

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Originally Posted by Helicon

Read the post before you jump to conclusions. Victory rush certainly seems OP in terms of aoe grinding. I could pull as many as 15-20 mobs and end up wth full health (while mixing in some cd's). If I blew up one of the mobs before I hit 50% health I pretty much won. It seems broken to me to allow any class to do this.

And yes Victory Rush loses it's luster on boss fights, and small trash packs, which is precisely my point. You have an ablity that's OP in one place but almost comically bad where it really counts. If they lowered the amount it healed I'm hoping blizz would give us more chances to use it in progression content.

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AoE grinding is largely irrelevant though. Plus, compare it with Blood DKs before you call it OP.

So its only broken in leveling? I don't see a problem in this.

You pretty much covered everything. It was made because warriors had huge amounts of downtime while leveling, in poor gear while most classes did not. The only thing it has a huge impact on is leveling. So yeah it's OP for leveling, but does it really matter how well a class can solo kill non elite mobs? Every class has a decent self heal now the only difference is theirs costs resources, ours doesn't. But it's not on demand, and like you said yourself, a prot paladin can use all their holy power for word of glory, which is actually very possible once they're at a high stack of vengeance and have a good threat lead. Impending Victory is pretty much useless.

It's a unique ability and as much as I'd love to see it changed to something with a CD, but on demand with a rage cost, it'd be too close to something like death strike and blizzard is trying to not homogenize abilities.

Really the only difference things like this makes is it makes it easier on healers during certain bosses or if a healer dies. I've done a bunch of heroics with different tanks and had the healer die, but a prot paladin was able to keep himself alive long enough for me to zerg the boss down, or I've had a warrior tank (where our healer also died), last for a bit but eventually died after his 3 minute cooldown self heal fell off. But if a tank dies because he has no self-healing, I don't think it's a game mechanic problem, it's most likely a healer or strategy problem. And I'm also not sure how much Blizzard cares about balancing heroics like that, because in most cases, in a raid, if there is no healer alive, no amount of self healing is gonna keep the tank alive (Unless they completely out gear the instance).

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Originally Posted by Ion

http://www.wowhead.com/spell=80129

It still sucks.

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I already mentioned that in the OP. Did you only read the thread title?

It only seems OP becuase most of us warriors leveled without it, it was only in patch 3.3 that it was trainable at low levels, at which point it was OP, i remember creating another warrior, getting her a Bloodied Arcanite Reaper with Crusader on it and her leveling pricess was pretty much Charge>victory rush, ad infinitum.

but then I recalled leveling my pally and thinking it was just as OP, and then leveling an Aff warlock, and again thinking this is OP, and then a feral druid and thinking "OP!" and a DK... So maybe their not OP, and we where just underpowered.

It's only come cata that i've bothered keybinding it.

paladins have holy word of glory at all times. far more "op" then VR. considering healers go oom about oever pull, and struggle for mana the last 30% of boss fights, i dont think its op at all..... its just a new style of wow

If by some act of god you get a killing blow in a group / raid situation it heals for insane amounts... but like someone else mentioned... normally your full health when that happens, or nothing left to hit. Our reliable self healing in group situations is rather lackluster compared to other classes... sub 20% it's awsome, but you have to live that long.

I think I've used it once in a dungeon where it's helped out, and I look to use it as often as I can. In general if you're pulling the mobs properly you probably don't need the extra healing, and the only time you can really use it without feeling like the extra damage you take from the time you spend in Berserker stance is defeating most of the healing is right after a shockwave.

My fun strategy to solo elites has been to kill them with incidental damage while kiting and tanking regular mobs right next to them for the VR health.

Off topic, Holycrapiforgottobindheroicleaptoabuttonandhavente venuseditonceyetfail!

It's usable in def stance now buddy

It IS really nice that levelling my arms warrior is no longer 10x more painful than levelling my affliction warlock. But they're basically trying to make it easier for anyone to level without spending all day eating or drinking.

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Originally Posted by Errvalunia

It IS really nice that levelling my arms warrior is no longer 10x more painful than levelling my affliction warlock. But they're basically trying to make it easier for anyone to level without spending all day eating or drinking.

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This.

I had 0 downtime grinding 70-80 on my prot warrior, unless I solo-ed a group quest. But off hand, the only group quest I remember was Ragemane and out of combat healing topped me off by the time I turned the quest in.

So far in Cata as a prot warrior grinding, I haven't had any downtime either. I take so little damage that I don't even bother with the heal half the time but just enjoy it for the free instant.

When I switched to leveling as Arms, I took a ton of damage and actually found the heal incredibly valuable. But as Arms I was still taking way too much damage to aoe grind and actually had to stop an heal up with a living seed for the first time all expansion when I exited a dungeon into the midst of 3 mobs.

I would say that victory rush is somewhat overpowered in 5 mans.

However it is extremely situational.

On bosses with adds, like 1st boss in Grim Batol and Commander Silverlane in Shadowfang Keep, a protwarrior can basically keep himself up if you got the victory rush glyph, and dps make sure the tank gets the killing blow on adds.

I have done a kill of the 1st boss in Grim Batol heroic where the healer died from blitz at 90%, and i proceeded to finish the fight with selfhealing only.

I forsee that the victory rush glyph will hit a big nerf when a raidfight with plenty of adds that allow victory rush comes along. It simply trivializes certain fights.

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Originally Posted by Helicon

I already mentioned that in the OP. Did you only read the thread title?

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I think the confusion lies in your post.. Your complaining that it's op in the title. But in the post your both bating for a nerf AND your saying it becomes lackluster in instances.

For one. I dont understand how a nerf solves this Other than making it less attractive over all.
And two. I don't understand why people (you in this case) get defensive and post replys such as "read the post before you jump to conclusions" or "did you even read the op before you posted?" when in fact they did. Your original post just has conflicting arguments.

Blizzard obviously doesn't/isn't tuning anything for the leveling process. It's really not op when every other tank has abilities that can be used any time they get in a sticky spot that heal for greater amounts. The only difference is that VR doesn't have a real CD so we can chain it when we kill large amounts of mobs back to back.. But even still. We have to kill one mob to get it. Chances are, if you are chaining them together fast enough for it to seem OP, you're not in any real danger.

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Originally Posted by Helicon

So in a way it's both OP and underpowered at the same time. Any other prot warriors have thoughts on this?

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So really you could just say it is conditional and balanced?

Every tank has self-healing, and it is factored into your survival. Bears heal themselves for 4% of their health every time they crit (and they have generous crit levels). DKs use heavy self-healing at will, resource-allowing (enough that Blizzard specifically said they were compensating on other damage reduction elements). Protadins can use Word of Glory (which cannot be wasted, overheal creates a bubble) on their Holy Power built up.

Yay for everyone getting fun moves.

except warriors is the most situational, you either get it after you land the killing blow (fat chance against 17 dps) or if you're spec'd and the boss is below 20%