Is prot warrior threat/damage too high?

Been playing a prot war for almost four years and I've seen the highs and lows of the class as changes are made.

Just got done with heroic stonecore alittle bit ago and noticed that my threat is higher then its ever been since playing in early BC. Still have a few greens left. Was running with competent guildies so alot of the packs we did WOTLK style (no CC just run in and AOE everything) and using CD's. I noticed when there were only 2-3 mobs left, that my TPS was 300-400k above the next. Maybe its a glitch on my skada but this continued thru the whole instance. It got to the point where I tabbed out during a pack to find a strat for the 3rd and 4th bosses and was able to still keep aggro. This was with an MD in the beginning of the pull by the way.

I'm not really liking this to be honest. Anyone feel the same way? I'm not sure if its the actual warrior class or the amount of TPS misdirects give now which which is the prob.

Also damage is insane. On AOE packs I'm pulling 9-12k+. Spiked at 15k-ish on a 5 mob pull. Single target DPS I seem to be doing about 6-7k.

i know that blizz was saying they want tank dps to be similar to everyone elses dps. i think once people have proper gear ( not green and blue lvling gear) the threat/dp we are putting out now will be required. single target im doing about 5 k.. that seems about normal considering boomkins are going 15k on the same fight.

as for aoe... im not complaining about haveing a powerfull aoe for once. it makes up for the fact that you can go rage starved if the dps arent as you put it "competent guildies"

Well I know for pallies, the majority of our threat comes from the STR on our gear and that we scale differently than dps. We seem to get a large portion of our damage and threat prior to the DPS (because it is just built into our tanking gear), but the DPS tend to scale better as the raid tiers increase. My only guess is that warriors are in a similar position, but it is just a guess.

I wouldn't be surprised if your relative DPS/TPS compared to a DPS class goes down as people gear up and get used to their rotations more.

I'm no longer just above the priest in RECOUNT anymore .. weird ......

I think Jere has a good point. I also think it has a lot to do with Vengeance.

Vengeance is designed to allow tanks to not worry about late expansion, raid geared DPS push them on threat. Remember back at the very beginning of Wrath that tanks were swimming in threat. I think Vengeance has recreated that effect and magnified it.

Right now, threat and damage should be really good. Later, as DPS get raid quality gear and learn to use their new abilities I think you'll be challenged on threat a bit more.

Tank life scaled rapidly and thus their base vengeance AP scaled rapidly as well. All forms of DPS went drastically in the other direction. This will even out with time, as will the lack of any sort of skill to hold threat at the moment.

Hey - don't say anything or they'll nerf us to high hell again! All half-joking aside, it is too early in the xpac to even think about threat mechanics being out of whack. Wait maybe 3 more weeks and then evaluate things...by then a lot of ppl should be 85 and not just the good levelers. If things are still wacky a month from now in LFG then we have a case to tweak things.

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Originally Posted by chingyching

I noticed when there were only 2-3 mobs left, that my TPS was 300-400k above the next.

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You're hitting shockwave, cleave and revenge all the time while keeping up rend via thunderclap and have about +12-15k bonus attackpower thanks to all those mobs hitting you and stacking up your vengeance buff constantly. All other dps aoe got neutered, so they might be aoe'ing as well but eg dotting all mobs grants way more dps than spamming seeds into five of them.

Single target tps/dps is enough for now but i fear those days when i pick avoidance stats over offensive ones while those melees wield epic quality weapons again with proper gemmed and enchanted gear.

As a druid contribution, I can tell you that the numbers you're pulling off dps-wise are similar to mine. Peak at 18k dps on 3 targets with berserk up.

Most of the time, I am on a par with other dps for total instance dps, at around 10k more or less. On single-target boss fight, I am quite behind however, at about 6k while they go 10-12k.

I personally think the main reason for this is vengeance, and my 28k crit mangles agree. Does it means it is broken? Not so sure. There are situations where you could run heroics with 2 tanks and 2 dps and benefit from it, but not many, maybe 3 or 4 bosses total.

I'm not talking about pvp, though. Right now as a bear in heroic blues I'm a total beast in pvp, and I know for certain it is not due to skillz :]

From my experience as a prot warrior our damage scales enormously from damage in-take as well as AoE packs where damage dealers seem to to scale that well in AoE situations at all. If we run heroics "safe" (i.e. with CC) I might do 8K dps per pack. If we run heroics "fast and furious" I might do 12-16K dps per pack. I've peaked at over 30K dps on some pulls.

Just a brief comment. They've sort of reintroduced an issue with vengeance that we had in the past. As our gear gets better, our threat goes down.

Now that I am actually geared fully in heroic gear I take less damage so my vengeance never makes it as high as it used to. I actually noticed a bit of a threat drop from when I was wearing mostly greens.

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Originally Posted by Lightmgl

Just a brief comment. They've sort of reintroduced an issue with vengeance that we had in the past. As our gear gets better, our threat goes down.

Now that I am actually geared fully in heroic gear I take less damage so my vengeance never makes it as high as it used to. I actually noticed a bit of a threat drop from when I was wearing mostly greens.

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Are you sure it's not because the greens also had things like crit and haste on them? You should be getting more AP anyway just because the gear has more STR on it.

I'm an ilvl 346 prot warrior and I'm also starting to notice how low my rage income in heroics can sometimes be, and how dps overaggro more easily than before. I first started heroics with ilvl 329.

It's surprising that this is happening so early, it's not like I'm significantly overgearing the place.

On topic: prot damage is definitely too high in some situations (those involving Cleave, lots of vengeance and Blood and Thunder). I'm expecting something like "Rend spread by Blood and Thunder does 50% damage" or "Rend spread by Blood and Thunder now diminishes in damage after 6 mobs."

I'm also hoping they do something about the situations where dps/threat is too low. That's mostly at the start of the pull because we're even more reliant on being hit some to get going.

Also have noticed Rage being peculiarly difficult for the first few GCDs of group pulls in Heroics. This is with an initial Shout + Berserker Rage + Charge during the pull. I think what confounds it is the fact that to maximize our overall threat, we need to get the Shockwave off first, then TClap. Yet if we Shockwave, that's a few seconds of almost no rage generation since they will be stunned for the entire duration of our 2.6 second swing timer, by which point the DPS has already begun nuking the first target. So the true answer is of course to have the DPS hold off just a second. But they never, never do.

The thing is, this will likely not be an issue in raid content where specific duties may be assigned to the tanks (ie, "I'll Heroic Throw X and charge Skull while CC is going out."

I think the damage for Prot warriors is probably a bit high at the moment, and I expect a nerf. That said, as gear improves, the disparity between tanks and dps will shift somewhat with it such that they will end up doing far more damage than us. But yes, I think our baseline damage is probably a bit high.

the damage from warriors isn't like off the charts compared to other tanks either though, the biggest discrepency is when there's multiple adds, and with the new glyph system, many prot warriors have opted to glyph for cleave since it's now just a major (not prime) and there aren't many other options for prot to pick up. So when there's more than 3 mobs to attack, cleave is giving us an additional target to hit, and therefore inflating our dps numbers.

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Originally Posted by Kazeyonoma

the damage from warriors isn't like off the charts compared to other tanks either though, the biggest discrepency is when there's multiple adds, and with the new glyph system, many prot warriors have opted to glyph for cleave since it's now just a major (not prime) and there aren't many other options for prot to pick up. So when there's more than 3 mobs to attack, cleave is giving us an additional target to hit, and therefore inflating our dps numbers.

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That, and Blood and Thunder is the only non-capped AoE in the game right now.

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Originally Posted by Reev

That, and Blood and Thunder is the only non-capped AoE in the game right now.

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oh, pft, I'm not even spec'd into BnT =P

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Originally Posted by Kazeyonoma

oh, pft, I'm not even spec'd into BnT =P

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I am! And its fun.

the is blizzards version of " we're sorry" for the last 2 years of our aoe laying in the shadow of dks, druids, and paladins.. im not complaining