# Fury - Hit and Haste for Rage - trying to think it out

• 10-14-2010, 08:13 PM
Loganisis
Fury - Hit and Haste for Rage - trying to think it out
Does anyone have links to the information on how much hit rating and how much haste rating see increases of 1%?

As it stands right now, I can see haste being reforged out the wazoo into Hit as hit:
A) Gives slightly more connected attacks per 1% than haste; and
B) Reduces miss-strings which can cause rage issues at any given time in a fight.

Of course, this is all assuming my math is correct.

Using my table top math, with a starting point of 73% hit (no hit, 27% miss chance DW) and 0% haste, which I know are unrealistic, but for simple understanding's sake...

using a 10,000 second interval, which is rediculous, but necessary to 'see' the difference and a base 3.5 second wep speed, at:

The baseline, 73% hit chance and 3.5 swing timer, we see 2085.714 landed attacks
@ +2% hit -> 2142.857 @ 3.43 s swing timer (+2% haste) -> 2128.063
@ +7% hit -> 2285.714 @ 3.26 s swing timer (+7%% haste) -> 2237.734
@ +12% hit -> 2428.571 @ 3.10 s swing timer (+12% haste) -> 2353.057
@ +17% hit -> 2571.429 @ 2.95 s swing timer (+17% haste) -> 2474.324
@ +22% hit -> 2714.286 @ 2.81 s swing timer (+22% haste) -> 2601.84
@ +27% hit ->2857.143 @ 2.67 s swing timer (+27% haste) -> 2735.927

So 27% hit would result in 121.2155 more landed hits per 10,000 seconds than 27% haste if those were the only changes in the stats.

If I did my math right, it looks like for ever 1% increase to 27%, hit > 1% haste.

*****

So... How much rating does it take for 1% hit versus 1% haste. The difference is small enough that if haste is 'cheaper' to get 1% it would end up being better, rating point for rating point, for rage generation than hit. If they are equal or hit requires fewer rating points then it's clear hit would be preferred.

So, from a gearing/reforging/gemming standpoint...

Assuming an equal rating cost... The best choice to reach a point you are comfortable with your rage generation would be to pile on the hit to 27% and only then look for haste if you still want more rage. And once you are at 27% hit (plus any haste you feel you want/need).

If haste requires less rating, then you would want enough hit to make sure your yellows land, and maybe to reduce 2x+ miss strings to point you're comfortable with and then ignore hit for haste.

*****

P.S. Looking at 2.6 swing timers and 1.5 swing timers, the difference is even more pronounced. For:
2.6 swing timers, 27% hit will result in 163.1747 more hits per 10,000 seconds than 27% haste
1.5 swing timers, 27% hit will result in 282.8362 more hits per 10,000 seconds than 27% haste

So hit is more valuable compared to haste for SMF than TG. But for both it looks like hit is clearly > haste for terms of rage generation.

*****

Does this seem right? I've probably already gone too far into the assumption that hit is cheaper than haste in rating points, and any determination of the value of hit/haste in comparison to each other would be dictated by that answer.
• 10-15-2010, 07:31 PM
Musclebound
I reforged as much haste into hit as I could on my dps set. Luckily I never really gemmed armor pen so I didn't have to fuck with gems too much. Rage generation was very smooth...I think our stat priority is gonna look something like 8% hit > Strength > hit to 27% >crit >haste

I'm not sure but my gut tells me that crit will pull ahead of haste up to a certain point due to the benefit of higher crit rate as well as increased flurry time, but I don't have any concrete numbers to back that up.
• 10-15-2010, 08:17 PM
Tinytankz
i know everyone is all hyped on crit but i have yet to see Crit> Haste in terms of actual DPS
• 10-15-2010, 09:13 PM
Ion
Honestly, I reforged crit to hit (and a bit even to haste, where I could) and I saw SIGNIFICANT dps increases...and I saw a lot of crits...since incite basically adds 50% of your crit rate back into your heroic strike (actually it's less than that, but it's a nice round number) and taht's our #1 attack currently crit is seriously de-valued.

Haste and hit both up your rage gen (crit does not) and that means more specials (since right now it's EXTREMELY unlikely you'll be able to have enough rage gen to actually use every special every time it's up) which is significantly more damage than just critting things.

Until we're in an "infinite rage" situation again, hit > haste > crit > pooping yourself > mastery.

I assume, however, that they'll fix HS being our #1 attack, fix mastery to not suck and thus change everything once again, as soon as we get used to it the way it is.
• 10-15-2010, 10:36 PM
Loganisis
I was running some additional numbers on my laptops (I'm jet-lagged right now, so I'll try to clean it up) and found something surprising...

If you need a combination of 27% or less hit/haste to generate sufficient rage, IGNORE haste. It's bad compared to hit (gives fewer landed attacks and doesn't decrease teh chance of a bad miss string).

But at 27% hit and 0% haste or 0% haste and 27% hit, you ahve the exact same number of landed attacks. At that point, haste > hit for # of landed attacks (but you have to have 27% haste for haste to reach this inflection point).

It was really wiered that until 27%, unless i did math wrong (whic his posible, I'm going on like 12 hours of sleep total for the last 5 nights) you're ideally at 27% hit and 0% haste. Then switch over to 8% hit and 27% haste to maximize # of landed attacks.

****

So it looks like a key point for Fury will be what % of hit/haste is needed to generate sufficient threat.

If it's <= 27% then ignore haste, if it's >27% then go to 35% with 8% hit and 27% haste? Something like that.
• 10-16-2010, 10:30 AM
swelt
How much of this changes when we get deep wounds back in our builds at 85? I assume that's a pretty big factor in the devaluation of crit.