LK 10 Reg Problems
Okay, my team is consistently having issues with the early stages of this encounter. We have a paladin tank on LK/adds, Warrior OT on Shambling Horrors. Disc Priest, Resto Shaman, Resto Druid heals. We have one Fury Warrior DPS and rest are ranged (Hunter, Warlock, Ele Shaman, Mage).
We set up in a typical triangle formation, single target burn LK with Hunter and Warr Tank on Shambling horrors. Otherwise, we'll get multiple Horrors up.
Problems usually start:
1. Too many damn ghouls on the Paladin tank come transition phase.
2. Fresh horror pops up as we transition
We make it to transition. We put Warr tank with Horrors on one side of platform edge, DPS spread out in middle, and Paladin tank on opposite end. Raging Spirits come up, they are brought to Paladin tank for tanking while Horrors go down. Then, turn around and dps spirits until P2.
By now, half the team is usually dead or dying. Paladin tank is silenced to death, can't keep aggro, spirits are running around killing people. Sometimes that fresh horror never makes it down. Ghouls are damn everywhere.
And if - IF we make it to a valk, we burn it down as fast and hard as possible, but only manage to get to half health by the time it flies somebody over the edge. And meanwhile Warr tank has LK and gets Soul Reaper killed and Paladin still has 1-2 Spirits on him and silenced to death.
Anybody give some insight on what we're doing wrong? Or ideas to do better? I firmly believe there is something we're just NOT doing, be it placement or strategy, that will make Phase 1 - 2 click, but I cannot see what it is.
1st ) CONTROL the transition, if you know you can force it before a new shambler, do, if you know you cant, stop dps on lk and clear any excess adds if you can.
2nd) put the prot warrs vigilance on on the pala so he can constantly take adds.
3) pala takes first raging, prot warr takes rest so pala can grab lk in p2 - ardent defender for the win.
4) hunter frost trap valks, prot warr stuns, prot pala HoJ
in p2 EVERYONEEEE stack on the same spot except the tanks, stun and slow valks.
got any logs etc? it might simply be a dps issue, or maybe peopel are too busy trying to win the meters to swap to adds.
if the warlock gets grabbed by a valkyr ignore the valk, any good warlock knows to use portal when they get dropped.
I agree with all of the above points, especially controlling when the phase transition occurs is key, as it is with Putricide, particularly Heroic Putri.
You need to dispel the silence off the raging tank ASAP. It's a magic effect.
Have your hunter handle ice spheres and the rest of the dps burn the ragings. Necrotic plague should be more than enough to kill remaining shamblings.
Valkyr's have diminishing returns on stuns. DPS needs to be a lot quicker.
You say "By now, half the team is dying or dead." Are you saying they're dying to infest and pain & suffering? Disc bubbles should make infest a non-issue the whole fight.
Looking at your raid set+up iød suggest the mage spec into slow to help with the Valkyrs.
BTW you never actually told us what´s killing the raid although it sounds like it´s probably the raging spirits. If the Pala tank gets silenced just dispell it quickly. Make sure people arenøt moving infront of the spirits because of the conal aoe they do.
Better yet have your tailors in the group use frostweave nets every other valk, and if you have more than one you can net all of them by taking turns.
Sorry for not responding back sooner.
I'll be honest, I really don't know what kills us. It seems like sometimes its spirits smacking them down as soon as they spawn (because tank is silenced and can't pull aggro). And the silence is being removed by healers, but when you have multiple on you, it comes back just as soon as its removed.
So you're saying when spirits come up, have the first one go to the Horrors tank (warr) and the other two on Paladin? Burn down as necessary?...
And when we make it into P2, Warr takes LK, Paladin has remaining Spirt(s), Valk shows up and we blow everything we can, but to no avail it seems. Slow, snares, anything, the valk just seems to have more health than we can load onto it.
But really that transition phase is messy and I think the real problem. People just...drop. And I'm (paladin tank) too busy with my own adds to notice what the problem is.
But thank you for help so far. With resets, we've had to work our way back up to LK, which we're hoping to be back to come monday night. (Left off at Sindy last night)
If too many people are bunched up, there's some black forked lightning bolt thing (sorry the name escapes me) that LK does during transitions, which applies a stacking dot. Having people spread out a little more makes sure the same people don't get hit over and over again, which lets the dot expire before it starts dealing lethal damage. That could be part of the issue.
Originally Posted by chaoswhite
The only solution to the silence/cleanse/silence problem is more vigilant dispelling of the silence. A prompt response is needed.
Stuns are the most effective on the valk, since slows can't reduce its speed by more than 50%, and still moves at a pretty good clip. I've found that if you can stun a valk twice, and have it slowed constantly when not stunned, the valk is very easy to take out -- but all your DPS have to be alive for it to be "easy". ;)
Making a macro to target the val'kyr (/tar val) will also help DPS get on the valk right away. As a shammy healer, I'd usually use a frost shock macro (targets and casts) and spam it as soon as the valk swoops down, to make sure it is slowed immediately. This helped a lot.
Also think about what your dps could be doing but aren't. Are they aware of where the spirits are? are they trying to move 100% of the time to keep from being nuked by them?
Are they all using their decurses, cleanses, stuns, snares, tailoring nets & mage slows(if arc) when they should?
If you used raid locks to get to LK but only cleared to him once, doing it over isn't a bad thing. We didn't consider LK on farm until we had him down with less than 2 wipes, and now we're 11/12HM just finishing the mount achieves (sindy 5 stacks zerg here we come) before doing a couple locks to down him on HM.
You'll get there, but all your people need to learn their jobs 100% and not need to be called out to do them. One person slipping up on LK can cause a wipe. It's not a DPS race. On my mage when I come out of the portal I Iceblock right after killing the mob to make sure I don't get vile spirited to death before I even materialize.
Small things like that that gimp dps might keep the raid alive long enough to take him out. If you are killing him, even at 9:59, you are doing good.
We had a long weekend and some more face-to-face time with Arthas last night after a 2-shot at Sindy. The new UI raid frames (as I usually swap from paladin tank to paladin heals as it only requires one frost geared tank) don't display the Tombed effect on members as well as Vuhdu does...talk about epic fail Beacon action.
But moving along!
We repositioned with some significant success for phase 1, transitioned smoothly into phase 1.5 and handled horrors/ghouls and spirits rather well. Matter of fact, we're pushing into phase 2 with only one spirit up.
Now the glaring issues.
1. Valk's just aren't dying - is there a minimum dps people should be putting out to get them down?
2. Warr Tank is getting Soul Reaper'd, then killed - This is supposed to be a tank taunt, but if I'm (paladin tank) taking that last spirit, how can I take LK too? Is warr tank supposed to be healed up and then take LK back?...
You're feedback has been fantastic thus far, ty all. You were right, spreading out for the DOT damage in phase 1.5 helped I think, but we're changing up some toons for this fight due to some not having the dps they once did (hunter) and healing just not where it needs to be for this fight.
It's sad, but it's nice being wiped out by defile for once. I feel like we've achieved something special that hard work has granted us the ability to say. :)
1) Yeah if your dps is really low, the valks won't die unless you chain stun it like 10 times. But many classes got a DPS boost, and isn't the 30% buff still present? You'd have to all be really crummy DPS, and if you can get to LK at all... your DPS can't be that bad...
You probably need the DPS to get on the valk faster, and better coordination with keeping the valk stunned/slowed. YOu don't want two people blowing a stun or slow at the same time, that's just wasteful. You also want to make sure people are near the center of the room when a valk is about to swoop down, to make sure DPS has the most time possible to kill the damn thing. If someone is on the edge and gets picked up, unless you happen to know a god-mode cheat code, that dude is gonna die.
2) If the offtank is not in a position to taunt off when a soul reaper hits.. this would be the time for the MT to blow some cooldowns, or a healer to blow a cooldown on the tank (e.g. pain suppression)*. If the tank is having to blow cooldowns to stay alive before that, then healing needs to be better coordinated (I'm just going to assume the tank isn't doing something bad that makes him extra squishy...right!?)
EDIT: * this would also be the time for healers to go "OMFG MT NEEDZ HEALZ NAO"
If your dps in 10 man ICC isn't doing at least 7k each you need new dps. 30% buff plus all the new stuff from 4.0.1 should put people at no less than 7k if they have around a 5500gs or more.
I know, gearscore doesn't equal skill, but gear is the potential that the skill makes a reality.
Both the shaman (with totems) and the mage (with slow) can slow the valkyrs. The hunter can probably even get a pet that stuns/slows (like the spider?).
There really should be no reason you can't kill the Valkyr. this assumes that you group in the middle when the Valkyr spawns and all switch to the valkyr when it picks it target.
I don't believe your dps is low you can't kill a Valkyr, if it was you wouldn't be able to kill bosses like Festergut.
If you can't tank swap for Soul Reaper you should still be able to heal through it. Soul Reaper hits for 50k and then increases LK's haste for 5 seconds. Considering with the patch and the buff your tank should be well over 70k he shouldn't die.
I have a prot war and a prot pally. Ive MT'd and OT's this on both toons. OTing the adds with a prot war is asking for trouble. I feel Im a good tank and I just cant do it.
Put the pally on the adds in P1, War on LK.
Drudge Ghouls pop up, use avenging shield on them to pick them up. When shamblings start to rise, hit them with Exorcism THEN taunt. You wont have a problem with anyone accidently pulling the shamblings.
P1-2 transition, I had the pally taking the adds and doing his thing off to the side. The war would taunt the adds and hold them for a second so the pally can use righteous defense off of him. The OT always has the adds, and the MT makes sure they dont run rampant through the raid.
P2, warrior uses heroic throw/charge the LK, taunt if needed and he gets into position, the pally takes his adds (who should be close to dead) and he gets into position.
Valks pop up, the ragings should be dead. Pally uses avenging shield, when that wears off, use holy wrath or hammer of justice to stun them. I was the only one doing stuns and had no problem getting 3 off while the dps just burns them down.
Hope that helps.
During the transition from phase 1.5 to 2, let that warrior get the last spirit if it is up AND the LK. What this will do is leave the pally free to help stun the first valk. Get the valk down first, then kill that remaining spirit from the transition phase. The warrior will need to save a cooldown for that first soul reaper, and then you can do a taunt rotation after that. It helps to have the tanks call out when they are "eating" a soul reaper (not taunting off) so healers can be expecting that kind of damage. If your tanks and heals are skilled and geared enough, you can do this without a taunt rotation at all, and leave a tank free to help with the valks. With a cooldown, soul reaper hits my druid tank for 32-36k instead of 50k. Manage your cooldowns so you will always have something available every 30 sec.
Coordinating stuns and calling out defile and soul reaper are a big part of getting through this phase. At 3 sec before defile, call it out, so people have time to spread out on that outer ring before it is even cast. When it lands, everyone runs away from it and the defile puddle stays small.
CALL IT OUT. If you are taunting, say "im taking the boss". If you have a stun that is available, off cooldown, say "i got first stun". If you are eating a soul reaper, say "soul reaper on me." 3 sec before defile, say "defile in 3". Good communication will help coordinate things a lot better.
Have to agree with Amazon_jade on this one. Myself (a DK) and the other tank (a prot warrior) are always calling things out on vent to help co-ordinate, and honestly your healers are busy enough in P2 managing infest, defile, breaking down for valks, trying to pull your tanks through Soul Reaper - a little communication goes a long way.
We did it. :)
After some team drama, we replaced a tank, a DPS and had to pull in another healer. We swapped our strategy around, using the "let the plague kill the adds" technique - worked almostly flawlessly. After a couple of attempts, we had the 3rd raging spirit under lock and key by the time the first valk came up.
Only issue after that was defile. Through proper communication, we got it handled on the outside of the platform with the fight happening inside. 2nd Transition phase was a bit rough, and we ended up having a lot of adds still by phase 3 - but we survived long enough to kite him around and down with one tank (me) on LK from phase 2 on, eating Soul Reaper every time. (Protector of the Innocent + Word of Glory ftw)
Thank you to everyone in the Tankspot community for their comments and help! Finishing this raid (despite buff) was my first legit progression fight and it was worth every bit of grief we ever had. Now if only he dropped something other than the fist weapon twice....:)
Congratulations. Don't apologize for the buff, you've still done something that a large majority (people on here know the statistics) of the guilds in the world (and almost no PuGs) can do.
Hope you took your group picture around the LK's corpse with your titles on.
As a matter of fact, we did. :)
I keep my own nameplate turned off by default, but in honest, I was so blown away by the kill I could still care less. :)
In random other news, we also got together and killed Halion for the first time last night too. It was a pretty good week for us all in all.
Sadly, the loot still sucked. :(
Yay!! Grats to you and your group :)