DK..Im doing it wrong?
Alright, I have tanked on a warrior since...well forever. Now I am playing a horde DK, I love the idea of tanking with a 2h..its just beast. I was curious if how im tanking is wrong?
AoE I just DnD/IT/PS/Pest/HS(tab)/BB etc...
ST I just DnD/IT/PS/HS/DS rune strike on procs(not using a macro)
then I just use that rotation.
I seem to lose AoE aggro more than anything, it may be due to the fact people are aoe spamming well before I hit Pest..but ST sometimes I lose threat like crazy, to mages/locks/hunters that jerks and not MD'ing me...mainly during a Bloodlust phase at the start of the fight.
I guess ill add I pretty much use no rune management whatsoever..I pretty much use my abilities asap. Is that the wrong way of going about it? Should I start managing my runes? I know there is a huge guide here somewhere, but my search function couldnt find it..so if you wanna link that for me. :P
Should PS not be use on CD but rather when the disease falls off? Also another question to you gurus, Glyph of disease, if I use that on say a single target fight, does that get the same threat bonus as if I used IT again? Alright im done...:P
First off a link to your armory would help greatly.
There is no need for DnD for single target. DnD is for AOE only. why would you not use runestrike macros? thats one less thing you have to worry about. If you're worried about not having enough RP to be usable try not spamming RP ablities as much and trying to keep RP by actually keeping an active eye on it but it most cases this shouldn't be needed.
Try removing DnD from your single target rotation and the RS macro to all your melee abilities.
I mainly never used a RS macro cause I just got so used to hitting the button on my mouse. I guess I could try it..Does it go in all of them? IT/PS/HS/DS? or just a few?
I have RS macro'd to IT, PS, HS, DS, and BB.
i would macro it to PS, HS, DS/ basically just melee abilities. Other than taking DnD out of your single target rotation i would say its a matter of gear honestly. Losing some of those def gems would help too since you are currently at 546
I Suggest macroing RS into every ability minus DnD and IBF, it can Never hurt to hit it. besides that if your losing aoe threat switch out your RS glyph for DnD, it's a noticeable increase on base threat I agree with Uglie however, It doesn't matter how perfect you do your rotation that 6K+gs Dps is going to rip off of you.
Alright, I put RS in DS/HS/PS and i'll admit it does work better. :P
On aoe pulls start as you mentioned: DnD, IT, PS, Pest. Then if you have 4 or more mobs you can use BB and DS to swap to death runes. But for packs of 3 (or even 4 for me) I swap targets and use HS.
Your aoe rotation looks alright for blood, I suggest using bb primarily for aoe unless there are less than 3 mobs left standing. I noticed some problems with your single target rotation though.
First of all dnd is a waste of runes on single target, I honestly feel like /facepalming everytime I see a dk lay down dnd on addless bosses. Your single target rotation for blood should look like diseases>death strike>blood strike. The only exception is this simple formula, Do your diseases have greater than 3 seconds left before they fall off? If yes then continue with the priority, if no use Obliterate. Simply put you want to use OB just before your diseases fall off to consume them. I also suggest macroing rune strike to IT and PS, runic power has very little use to a blood dk unless you're running a corpse explode blood spec like myself, so it won't like rage starve you or anything.
I don't play with blood but i could have sworn OB wasn't used by blood tanks, they instead us heart strike instead.
Tankspot is playing up but hopefully we don't get double post here.
Originally Posted by Arencey
As uglie pointed out obliterate is not in a blood DK tank rotation at all.
Instead of /facepalm you may also try to understand why they are using D&D on a single target boss .. hint you will often see blood DPS dk's do it as well.
Look at your weapon chant, look at your sigil, look at you Tier bonus, Look at your trinkets .. How many of them "proc" off an attack????
D&D is considered an attack its like free swings for a period so they may be doing it for a very considered reason .... not the actual D&D itself so be very careful about making judgements like this.
A blood DK dps with NES will use D&D alot it amazing the difference in uptime.
For dps using "on attack" proc trinkets i can understand why dnd would be beneficial, granted there would have to be math to prove the dps increase. Not saying its not out there, but I havent personally come across it since i only tank on my dk. Now using dnd for tanking a single boss I believe it's too much of a rune cost for the aggro return with the exception or the t10 2 pc bonus which i have found lacking. Personally i use no teir pieces in my setup. not saving that i've never used it in a boss fight. I usually use it on PP and throw it right in front of the person cemented so that when the person gets hit the green ooze sits in the dnd. So its used as a lil extra raid dps in cases like that and that is w/o the 2pc bonus.
In short i believe that 2 IT + PS + OB/ HS > dnd for aggro. Dps is totally different ball game though.
Yep uglie agree with your assessment in general.
I use rune of fallen crusader as my weapon enchant because I dont need the defense and a few percent extra stamina is moot when you already outgear most encounters.
In heroics and easier ICC bosses that really arent hitting hard I will also use a dps trinket and ring because threat is much more an issue than any fear of dying to an attack.
And so if you were to get me as your tank in a random heroic I may well be using D&D but it would be for very specific reasons and not because I am stupid as Arencey suggested.
Ok uglybbtoo, i would agree with that for non progression fights since just about anyone in frost presence shout be able to keep aggro. Now what about progression fights in all EH gear? For the sake of argument back when fester was progression.
Nope in progression as I said you are totally correct I would do exactly as per you
I don't find it surprising that you lose aggro in AoE fights, it's not really uncommon. For that you just need to have your taunt/dg ready. You could try frost with a howling blast glyph for AoE, it's has a lot more AoE then blood, but lacks the survivability and cooldowns that blood has. But frost is quite nice for farming hc's for example.
But your single target rotation is way off man. First of all, don't drop the dnd! It is simply not viable for single target tanking. Instead you should use a simpler rotation, like IT, PS, HS, HS, DS, rune dump, rinse and repeat. Ofcourse it varies, the second time you do this rotation you probably don't need to reapply plagues and you will have death runes so you can do more Heart Strikes. It's also going to change slightly if you have the Pestilence glyph (it's more of a dps increase, I haven't seen any math or done any testing, but I honestly think it's less threat).
One last tip, if you lack threat, and threat only, use Icy Touch (IT). Let's say you're looking at omen and this hunter is slowly climbing towards the 100% without feeling the need to feign death. In this situation, you stop doing Death Strikes and start doing more Icy Touches. Icy Touch used to have like 2x the threat, but they recently changed it and now it's got like 14x the threat. I have actually taken aggro a few times from another tank with only 1 IT early in the fight, so be careful with it. But it's good knowledge, specially if you group with a fury warr who thinks Titans Grip works on his penis and is now equipped with two 2h penises.
Thanks guys, since here my threat has gone up. It's awesome! Now I am in the process of buying my frost gear. I dont really raid 25 mans at all, so I am buying my chest/gloves/belt instead of my t10. It seems like the better move. :P Thanks for all of your help! If buying t10 is better than buying the 264 items, please let me know so I dont buy the next item. :P
about the only fight I've found a need for 4pc t10 is the LK fight. could be useful on sindy. Other than that i have been very happy with the off set pieces even though i run 25's on a regular basis. Since you said you don't run too many 25's i would definitely go with the offset pieces.