Best in slot questions
I am perfectly aware that tanks generally don't have a BiS due to different scenarios changing the usefullness of different gear. However I would like to focus on (warrior btw) our 4 pc and trinkets. I am sure these have been discussed before, but it seems to me alot of people go back and forth arguing between whats best. What I am looking for is a general consensus on what is best when. I am talking BiS so lets consider all gear discussed is 277 or 284.
Basically what I want to know is if warrior 4 pc is better than 2 pc + offset pieces. Atm im using 2 pc and all 277 offpieces, but since we are running out of people to give tokens to tbh I will probably pick up 2 more 277 tier tokens. I have heard alot of people say off pieces are better, but are there any fights where the 4 piece actually makes up for the lost health pool? Should I bother taking those tokens? Tbh the only fight that seems to do alot of damage to me is HM halion and with the smaller health pool without icc buff is the 4 pc even worse? Basically I just want to know if theres a fight where 4 pc is a no brainer or if I should just stick with what im doing.
Then of course trinkets, I currently have a 251 UO, 277 fang, a 271 petrified scale and key. Lets still talk BiS tier of these trinkets anyway though, I almost always use double stam trinkets but has 277 scale been found to be better than key on certain fights? And if so which ones? Also how about 264 UO do any of you ever seriously use that over stam unless your tanking multiple mobs like princes? I sometimes use it for Festergut because he hits for nothing and when he does hit hard he attacks faster and stacks UO. So UO has the stacks when needed most. I don't really need any kind of arguements or anything on these topics, im sure they have been discussed I just hope somebody can give me like a cut and dry answer and let me know what should be used.
4pc is my main question, since multiple people have given me different opinions, I also feel without the health pool of icc it's not as good. And the trinkets really just curious if Scale is ever better than key since I haven't really researched how good it was.
Anyways thanks in advance.
Warrior tier/off-set goes like this
2 pc is head + shoulders.
Legs are Pillars of Might for every fight but LK, LDW, Sind. Then it's ONLY Leggings of Lost Hope (Heroic 277)
Cataclysmic + Kraken > 251 tier.
Cataclysmic + Kraken > 264 tier except for LK, LDW, Sind (4pc bonus)
277 Tier BiS.
Trinkets depend on the fight. As a general rule, if there's a lot more physical damage, dual armor is generally preferred. If it's got a mix of both, most appropriate sta trinket (almost always 277 Fang in your case) + Best armor trinket (UO for fast-swing timers like Saurfang/Fester during inhale 3, trash), or if it's very heavy in magic, dual stamina, with Fang obviously being exceptional, and then either CSK or Heroic Scarab, with all three providing great CDs (I'd take Scarab over CSK for magic damage, the absorb is only a little larger than the HP bonus and the HP bonus lasts for 15 seconds)
For dual-tanking Princes, Dual Armor trinkets might be best, it depends on your damage intake. You'll have a smaller HP pool, but your healers will have an easier time keeping you up because the hits you take will be smaller and thus you're more likely to be capped off. You may need to play with it. Typically, unless there is a good chunk of magic damage Sta/Armor is the standard way to go, but armor/armor is nice for a lot of fights as well in my experience (actually, in ICC with the larger HP pools, I've found most fights are better with dual armor and Halion physical tanking is better with dual armor).
Ultimately, you have to feel confident with the choices for them to be the most valuable, but I personally would run with 277 Fang (so jealous) and 251 UO as my 'standard', then swap in Scale for Fang on very rare occasions and swap UO out for Scale for slower swing timers, and use CSK or Scarab instead of UO/Scale for LDW, LK, Sind.
Of course.... this is my opinion (on the trinkets, the tier/off-tier is pretty standard)... You're probably not going to ever get a clear consensus.
I am currently using chest + gloves for 2 pc with the other 277 off pieces. I never went head and shoulders because the 277 tier was obviously better than cata + kraken and the tokens are much harder to get than the off pieces. So in your opinion the 4 pc bonus is definetly worth the 54 or so stam you would lose to get it?
Dual armor trinkets is an interesting concept, I would almost definetely be at armor cap =P.
Alot of interesting information, gonna look forward to seeing if anybody has any different views. But I agree with basically everything you said and appreciate the information and the swift reply.
Edit: I apologize, I just checked and for some reason I thought it was a bigger stam loss, it appears it's only 18 for tier instead of an off piece because of the loss of a socket but gain of 12 stam. I also failed to realize the helm was no stam loss, just some dodge, defense, and hit. Now I feel really noob. I can see why 4 pc 277 is better than the 18 stam gained with the off pieces. I think I will pick up 2 tokens this week and if I get unlucky into the next. Then I will do some tests on Halion this week and see what my healers think is easiest to heal in terms of trinkets. Thanks again.
Problem with equipping the 4pc is how you'll want to balance your EHP (mostly armor) and expertise. Usually, you end up giving up stats.
The real dilemma lies in giving up the excellent Pillars. You'll want the expertise from the tier legs (halion & hc sindi still parry-haste, no?) to replace the expertise you lose from the chest but that'll mean giving up a ton of EHP.
So, just looking at the armor & hp (including sockets, assuming they're all stam gems):
Cata chest + kraken + Pillars: 9975 armor / 811 stam
277 tier chest + 277 tier hands + 277 tier pants: 9383 armor / 844 stam.
With the 3x277 tier items, you come out ahead on EHP, gain a little expertise on top. I havent calculated avoidance but i'm guessing it'll be slightly better too, with more budget going into defense than dodge/parry. On top, you get the extra cooldown. Good trade.
Without the 277 alternatives to all 3 items though, especially legs & chest, it would be very questionable though.
Question is, CAN you access 4 heroic tokens. I'm confused from your posts as you said both that they were abundant and hard to get...
They "were" hard to get, now that everything has been on farm for so long, they will start going off spec soon. So long story short, I could probably easily get my 4 pc when ever I decide to send a tell to our gm asking for them. As for exp on Halion I am not sure it's worth it. Sure I could parry-haste the boss, but tbh we had a macro that shows who is parrying it when. And it seems like everyone parries the boss, even pets. It is really wierd, but the few times I parry haste seem insignificant in comparison.
Pally speaking here.
I reached the point where my gear gives me enough stamina to value armor over stamina for trinkets - I asked my healers what they preferred, and they said that I was a lot easier to heal when using armor trinkets, so I swap trinkets on a fight-by-fight basis nowadays. Marrowgar, princes, gunship, deathbringer usually get two armor trinkets (264 UO and 271 scale), sindragosa is dual stam (key and 264 fang), others vary a bit but I usually go key/UO unless I forget to swap them out.
We haven't tried heroic RS yet.
I haven't gotten the 4p just yet, but when I get my next heroic token, I will. The paladin 4p is nice, but not overly important in my opinion.
For the rest of my gear, I run with the highest level bonus armor gear available, excluding one of my rings, where I use the rep ring for the hit it gives me. (Only 264+ gear is considered for me at the moment, I could go for a 245 armor ring if I had enough other hit rating, and the 232 armor sword, but that'd be too much of a threat loss for the armor gained, and when I go armor-heavy, I already hit the cap.)
I agree on terms of rings. I use the rep ring, I feel while the stat trade is plausible it isn't worth it, especially since when I get 4 pc as this thread as lead me to aim for, I am going to lose alot of hit from replacing my offpiece helmet. I will no longer be over hit cap and will need to use hit/stam food. If I was to replace that ring the little bit of armor would almost definetly not be worth the stam loss, and being as close to armor cap as I am, especially if I were to use 2 armor trinkets, would be pointless.
I should get the 284 LK mace any day now so I would never go back to using my togc armor wep.
The trinket advice was great, I will be testing different trinkets this week alot, see what people think.
"Everyone parrying the boss" has no impact on hasted attacks. Same for when you parry the boss - no effect, except you avoided an attack. It's when the Boss parrys *you* that it gets a hasted attack. Expertise reduces the chance of (Halion) parrying you and gaining a hasted counter.
Originally Posted by ironsides
I understood it as, if the boss parries anyone, not just your attacks, he/she/it gets a hasted attack. I believe the poster was referring to melee / pets getting attacks parried due to attacking from the side and large hit boxes often causing trouble for situations like that (in addition to dodging beams / movement). Halion is parrying dps attacks constantly, thus causing a ton of hasted attacks.
Originally Posted by Scotteq