max out incite to help with trash, sticking with 51 points in prot means vig is the weakest ability if you're way ahead on threat which pretty much every tank is nowadays.
And I plan to start doing HM's on my warrior and priest now I've done em all in 10's on my DK, so prob thats why I'm surv focussed.
Link your exact spec, if you would.
For burst aggro i like to heroic throw then charge SS. Then I always put vig on the strongest melee in the group since melee threat is higher than ranged threat and if a hunter pulls off and dies learn to MD k thx bai. When i am tanking in our progression 10m our mage pulls anywhere from 10-13k depending on fight and i never have issues with him. Also i know this is anti-rage but i bing HS to every ability because i tend to stay hit capped and close to exp cap so i never have any rage issues unless i am OT. But my guild all works well together. Our best geared tank is a pally but I do most of the MT on boss because i can out threat him and as a OT i am always rage starved and we risk a aggro loss on the initial swap if i dont pull first.
Its this right now http://www.wowhead.com/talent#LVZhg00xZVGtrx0zVdIzsGo so when I get around to it I'll drop the vig to 3/3 incite because it's handy for pulling trash of the other tank in fights like LK etc, I could probably get rid of conc blow too but it's handy for chain CCing one of the saurfang adds along with SW while it get's burned by the melee (we only have one ranged dps in our grp :/ ). I thought about dropping some points in crueltly to max demo out.. dunno, it's just that with so much excess threat it seems silly for me to spec threat talents.
Originally Posted by Dreador
I guess vig is nice for an undergeared OT on something like HM fester or dual enraged mobs on LK, but we just CD it.. I get to heal them on my priest each week too and they're stupidly easy fights anyways.
One thing I don't get is why HM LK isn't a requirement to get your mount.. not that I'm complaining :) , I guess it's the difference between doing alone and one light..
Oh yeah, love the cat raiding changes! even though we have 400+ toons in our guild we struggle to get 25 competent ppl together so for progression 10's are it for us I'm afraid.
you're having problems doing threat, but then you don't get full incite, or deepwounds or impale, also for survivability you gimp yourself by picking up 5/5 crit instead of 5/5 imp demo, and now you're gonna drop VIGILANCE? which is free 10% threat for 5% more crit on 3 of your situational rage dump/aoe abilities?
I'm sorry but I fail to see the rationale here.
Do your rotation right. Spec/Glyph accordingly. Utilize Tricks/MD. That's all you need.
You know what else is handy for pulling trash off the OT on LK?? Vigilance.
Originally Posted by Vlad
Also Kaze made a good point about demo shout, however if you have good rets in the raid that take vindication it's really up to you. For a spec I'd prefer something like http://www.wowhead.com/talent#LVZGV0...idczsho:crTomM instead...maxing out on more effective talents and minimizing less useful ones. Debatable to take two points from somewhere and put them in safeguard as well, depends on raid makeup. I don't know why you would not take imp disciplines though. Boggling.
Originally Posted by Dreador
I like the fact that you feel you can dump Vigilance (which is a total of 20% threat buffer you gain without having to do anything in a fight), but you still have 2/2 Damage Shields. In fact, if you think threat is so lol ....
* Why don't you move the points from Armored to the Teeth to Imp Demo?
* Why do you have Incite, Imp. Revenge, 1H Spec, Sword & Board or Damage Shield while you could pick up Imp. Spell Reflect, Imp. Disciplines or Safeguard? All which do what you want fro a tank, reduce damage taken!! (And you'ld still have 8 'less useful' points left for DPS talents)
* Why don't you put your spec & gear in my spreadsheet and show us how much threat you actually average out? (rather than throw out a range that covers the entire ICC gearing scope)
Not to bash you, but you can't just come around and say to the people that have thouroughly tested all the talents and come up with the current 'standards' and just make bold statements without any evidence to back it up, especially if your own spec contradicts what you say.
The specs you posted above are not ideal for either survivability or threat. An ideal survivability specs would have imp. Demo Shout for mitigation (as Kaze suggested). Plus, these specs are only useful for a handful of bosses, although if you don't have problems with threat you can use it on any boss for more mitigation and HP.
The Deep Wound build is a better choice for threat generation. But other than that:
- Shield Specialization isn't too useful for either threat of survivability, while Incite is great.
- Focused Rage help a lot with rage issues (if you find yourself starved)
- Damage Shield is great for AoE tanking.
Glyphs is something that was discussed here, but generally a glyph for imp. Dev is the best single glyph for extra threat. However, if you have a high DPS that constantly pulls off threat, you might wanna consider imp. Vigi. I use that one.
Further more, sometimes it helps having dual specs, for sustainability and DPS/TPS.
Yeah moving some point to demo are probably what I need to do, I haven't looked too hard at it but it's probably a change I'll make.
Imp disciplines isn't something I've found I've needed, SW just isnt really used much more oftne than the standard CD. And since I tend to off CD SB/LS and maybe a GS if we're really worried, it could be worthwhile if I had to deal with something that hits really hard on a short CD but there isn't anything out there right now.. we don't even bother with tanks swaps on soul reaper, but then again we're only doing it in 10.. so a little easier I'm sure. The only really scary boss I can ever think of is maybe broodlord's massive shots, or algalon's brutal beatings..
I have thought about spell reflect but the spells that matter usually arn't reflectable, and I have to disagree about shield spec, the extra rage generated is what allows macro spamming.. 5% block is nothing to be sniffed at either. Safeguard is a waste.
I think the original point I was trying to make was if you're already miles ahead on threat, isn't it better to spec some more survivability?
Adrael: yeah dual tanking specs is a good idea, esp since prot dps is already pretty good.
I have HS and Dev right next to each other on my bartender.
Get a MD from the hunter, Do a heroic throw at the same time as a charge, then doing TC and SS. Start doing HS/Dev/HS/Dev/HS/Dev till you gain 5 stacks. Use SS/Revenge whenever its on cooldown.
The way I choose who to vigilance, find a high threat class (lock/hunter/rogue/dk.) I also usually choose who is going to have the most time fighting the boss. Such as saurfang, its a bad idea to put it on a ranged.
I pull 7-9k threat full time and can burst to 13k in short spans, depending on crits. If I'm not careful, I can easily pull aggro from my OT in ICC and such. :(
There's a ton of good advice here that you should follow which will greatly improve your threat. I just wanted to add that you should never sweat a hunter who is breathing down your neck on threat - if they get too close they can use Misdirection to transfer some threat to you or they can Feign Death and completely wipe their threat.
Question for everyone - If survivability/Def minimum isn't an issue, then wouldn't a slow dps weapon add to threat?
I was under the impression that fast weapons are better for threat due to Heroic Strike and slower are better for DPS with Devastate spam.
Originally Posted by Bladesong