Sustainable Warrior AoE
I just wanted to throw this out there and pick some brains to see the different sides of this.
Warriors are lacking in the area of AoE threat. They are amazing at single target threat, but aren't up to par with other tanking classes that can do both equally well. So my point being, is making Thunderclap a 10-second AoE, such as Consecration/DnD, a viable option? Or perhaps just take the cooldown off of it? I have seen how Consecration and DnD aid in constant threat and directing new adds toward the tank, and it just seems like it would be a welcome addition to a warriors arsenal.
Would this be something that could happen in the future? Or is it specifically made like this for class balance?
We don't need it. DnD and Consecrate are not as great for AoE threat as people think. Give me a DK that thinks AoE threat is DnD, I'll pull 2 mobs out of 3 off of him in Fury spec... and I have numerous times. Sure it helps, but it is not game breaking in any way shape or form.
We don't need "AoE" as warriors, you need to change targets and Devastate/shield slam inbetween thunderclaps/shockwaves/cleaves.
Also, this has been discussed in depth in multiple other threads.
The biggest problem with that is that the Warrior AoE tank rotation then becomes 1-1-1-1-1-1-1-ad infinitum, it would be a broken threat mechanic, unless they nerfed it severely.
Originally Posted by Arodon
Actually I thought of a brilliant mechanic for this..and it's already been done before (sort of)
Look in the arms tree. Tactical mastery right now has something that boosts the threat of MS and BT when in Def stance. OK, as far as aoe goes that's useless. But here's an idea.
Change Deep Wounds so that the effect produces extra threat when in def stance. Problem solved. Once we get the snap aggro, DW does the rest.
Mine would be G-N, as those are TC & Cleave :)
Originally Posted by Eravian
And tbf, I hope they don't do that, tanking heroics with my bear is a bore, swipe/maul everything except bosses, how hard...
That definitely makes a lot of sense. I have no serious troubles with AoE, I just wanted to get some different views on whether this might happen, and the consequences that could come with it. Thanks guys
Improved Thunderclap - While under the effect of Thunderclap, enemies will now receive additional threat from subsequent Thunderclaps.
Oooooooo, thats really interesting. And a really good idea. I would definitely put points into that. =) Hmm, I wonder if that would ever happen.
The problem with aoe for warrior is not threat IMO I can hold 10 targets as easily as a pally or dk the problem is I dont have the ability to drop a patch on the ground that sits there and can agro stuff coming in or healers can use to run onto etc if they have agro.
It's a basic problem that increasing threat wont fix.
IMO the whole threat issue with AOE tanking is a scaling thing it's much harder at low gear levels than it is at higher ... in your gear you first ding 80 in AOE tanking is a nightmare.
That is a good point. I agree with you on that. While I wouldn't mind not having the increased threat, the original add pickups are sometimes difficult to handle if your trying to keep threat on the mobs you have while grabbing the incoming adds. So, make thunderclap a 10 second ability that stays on the ground, but not necessarily increase threat?
I honestly don't expect blizz to ever give us a "set it and forget it" aoe tanking option like that. That specifically want the flavor of the warrior to be in your face. We literally fling ourselves into harms way with things like intervene (and the aoe threat). Now obviously that's not going to work in every scenario but then again there are times when consecrate and dnd don't work as well as say, shockwave either.
The better options more in line with our concepts are things like bloodbath from the lk beta being discussed over here: http://www.tankspot.com/forums/f56/6...-happened.html
We (warriors) have to tools to deal with DPS/healer aggro pulls with Vigilance, Intervene, Charge, Taunt, etc. Although AoE tanking with a warrior is somewhat more challenging than with some of the other tank classes, it has it's flavor and it is doable.
However, when tanking mobs along with a superiour AoE threat class warriors can have troubles getting enough things to hit them. Off course if you do the whole 'wait for me to build some initial threat' thing, you are not likely to lose threat to other tanks. Since in most raids nobody waits for anything with other tanks (being able to use recources other than rage), I think a minor AoE threat increase is not a bad idea.
I really like two of the ideas posted above - the imp. TC and threat increase on DW.
Pff, my best bet for more AoE tanking would be to change Cleave:
Cleave Rank 8
20 Rage Melee Range
Requires Melee Weapon
A sweeping attack that does 200% weapon damage plus 444(2*old bonus) spread to all targets in front of you.
Glyph would simply up the damage by 50%
And before you are gonna complain about it being crap damage per target, think of this; Deep Wounds.
Mobs can Cleave infinte amount of targets without any damage penalty, I just want a wee bit of that cake.
Not this again...
Yes, it would be nice. No, it's not needed.
Yes... we have somewhat less aoe threat.
No.. that does not make us worse or lacking tanks in any way.
I think building threat against dps bombing through mobs is very well possible as a warrior.
There are only two things that really suck:
1. Building threat against pallies (though itīs no big prob as long as your pally-partner can survive all the mobs heīs tanking)
2. Additional Mobs spawning/running into combat. Things like those worms on the way to hodir or gunship (own side) come to mind.
If yor are busy tanking a lot of mobs spending yor cooldowns as soon as they come up, you might not be able so snap the new ones.
Imagine you are tanking a group of mobs (maybe in a 5-man) consisting of 4 Mobs. You start with a standard trash rotation like "TC->SW->SS->TC" and now someone gets feared into the next trashgroup, consisting of 4 mobs, too. This is the scenario I hate most. Sure, you will use your challenging shout to get them, until your TC comes up again, but even if this works, you wonīt be able to hold them against ongoing aoe.
And I think scenarios like this are the ones, that let you dream of some additional (maybe lasting) aoe-tanking-tools.
Standard "charge->aoe->next pull" encounters should not be of any problem.
In my opinion make a talent called Rolling Thunder .... its like a thunderclap but you only hit it once and its pulses a thunderclap every 1 second for 5 or 10 seconds put like a 1 min cd on it or a 30 sec cd on it and just make it so you need a shield equipped to use it ... what do you guys think ??
Yet another consecration vs tclap thread...
It's very simple: consecration does, at 245 iLvl averages, about 400 damage per tick, or 1000 tps. Considering we can use it 8 out of every 9 seconds, you drop to 890 tps.
Only healing can benefit from that as a "snap aggro" tool.
Shove a dps in there and it's all useless.
I had excellent experiences with warrior tanks over the last couple months, with warriors that could hold aoe aggro from large pulls against the hardest aoe fests I've ever seen. Anyone who claims warriors have lower aoe threat is just wrong.
Just wanna quote this one.
Originally Posted by sud
If we have somewhat less AoE threat, how is that not lacking or being worse? Say having 900 thousand dollars, and someone having 1 million. The first person would indeed be worse and lacking the second person, regardless of the small gap between the 2.
If we have less AoE threat, then we are indeed worse or lacking in that department. That goes for any class, I wasn't commenting specificly to this issue.
I grind my teeth every time I see this suggestion.
Originally Posted by Arodon
Consecrate isn't mitigated by armor. Thunderclap is.
Originally Posted by Synapse
You also have HoTR and Seals that proc on your attacks that build quite a bit of threat.