Tanking - WTF Happened?
I've been playing WoW and tanking for a long time (since beta actually). Things were fine and great back in BC, but when LK came out I took a break from the game in search of that thing called RL.
I recently came back to the game and am shocked at how groups behave now.
Today for example: I join a group to tank Heroic FoS. It's only the 3rd pull in, one of those large, spread out groups of casters focusing on a shade in the center. I tell the group (yes, a pug) to give me 3 seconds to build aggro. I charge in, slam my t-clap, I then run towards a mob who missed my t-clap to shield slam him and by then it was over. The DPS had already let loose as soon as I charged (each one it seems like at a different target). I lose aggro and now I'm running around like a chicken with its head lopped off trying to get it back.
I die, the DK picks up the aggro and the mobs are killed, I hear "lol this dk tanks better than you" and I'm kicked from the group. I send a whisper saying I just needed a few seconds to build aggro and I get back "Shouldn't have to."
I'd write this off as a one-time, bad pug kind of thing, but this is all I've seen lately. Half the time I don't even bother putting up a skull icon over a mob b/c it's usually the last to die when I do that!
So I'm asking - What can I do? Are my tactics just wrong or outdated? Is there something else I should be doing here? I was reading another article here talking about cleave and I was unaware of how much it's improved now with the glyph. What else have I missed I'm wondering.
What I've been doing:
Fire wrist rockets at a mob, charging a 2nd mob, shield slam, tab to 3rd mob, revenge (usually procced by now), Shockwave, back up a step or 2, then tab & devastate constantly hitting T-Clap, revenge and SS whenever they're up. (HS is macro'd to run whenever revenge is used)
My gear isn't great but it's not horrible either. Im at 540 defense, crafted epic tanking gear with blacksmithing and got some nice drops from normal FoS. It's hard to get better gear b/c when I try to join a raid to get the good gear I'm kicked out for not having it in the first place.
What happened to CC? Is it a lost art? No one bothers to sap, poly or hunter-trap mobs anymore.
I love tanking but this is getting so frustrating I'm considering dropping it and just playing DPS with my lock and mage.
And what is up with GearScore? I am not a number, do not treat me like one!
Groups are spoilt with over geared Tanks with 40K unbuffed who can generate 10K TPS while watching TV. They do not like to wait, do not like to CC, do not like to have to do any work but punch the same 4 buttons over and over. They are able to do 3-6K DPS by punching those 4 buttons over and over and do not wish to have to put in any more effort than is neccissary.
you are the tank, you are supposed to gather all the mobs, hold them in one place while everyone AOE's them down. You are then to move on and grab the next pack. Any failures are your fault.
Welcome to WoW 2.0
CC is a lost art, I love people who are good at it.
Also with over gearing people are much more impatient than they used to be. Honestly while there are a lot of changes that will require you to check up on, people are much lazier that they have been in my opinion.
When it comes to marking, its a skill that I used constantly as a warrior, less as a dk. Honestly though, most pugs i run with the dps dont pay attention to marks anyway. My guildies never target my target and tot the healer just to make me work but thats all in fun with people that run together.
gearscore yes is evil, its a bad players way to judge people.
Of my two tanks one is geared out the ass and the other is in naxx 10 gear, I love running on him just to show people that gearscore means little.
I would also recommend you make good friends with cleave and glyph of cleaving. They make AoE tanking a lot easier. Pretty much what the above posters have said is true, you've just really got to get exceptional and AoE tanking. Tclap, shockwave, cleaving, and marking are your very good friends.
Sounds to me like your ways are fairly out of date. It's lamentable that all instances have devolved into just a total kill fest, but that's the nature of the game we currently play. Your absolute best chance at holding aggro is to physically stay ahead of the group and reach the mobs 2-5 seconds before the rest of the group does. Yes, this means out pacing the healer and putting yourself at a bit of risk, but be ready to use cool downs liberally. Charge is your greatest ally here.
Basically, most tanks still need to wind up a bit of threat to hold aggro off overzealous DPS, and about the only way to ensure you get this wind up is to literally reach the mob far enough before they do to start building a lead.
Besides smoothing out pulls, this method helps keep the pace of the group rolling and you can smash most instances in about 15 minutes.
It's nice to hear it's not just me. Still, after reading many of the posts and the guide I'm gonna be making some changes to my spec, adding Impale.
And holeee crap, taunt is 30 yds now?! I've been chasing after mobs like a sucker to get into melee range for taunt.
Lol ya, the change to taunt was really nice.
Trust me man, I feel your pain. I've been playing the game since vanilla and tanked quite literally everything in BC, the game has been very dumbed down and lulzy. It actually makes it harder for us tanks I think to some extent, so that's a nice challenge/change, but for everyone else it's a snorefest.
Unfortunately I have to agree with everyone....especially and sadly about the part with healers have wrong spec/gems/enchants. I got called a crap tank because I didn't stay alive with no heals...but this coming from the shammy heals that had 30 stam gems and agility/stam gems in his healing gear.
i got slated earlier for telling everyone to give me 3 seconds to build threat they gave me the bullshit "i dont have to have 3 seconds to build threat on my dk" bla blah blah....
i personally prefer the 3 second rule is it isnt a big mess.
Is it only us main spec tanks that understand this?
Sadly we have reached a point where people are expecting that everything happen immediately and without any limitations on what they do. One must remember that tanks can get a random dungeon group near instantly, while it can easily take 10+ minutes to get in a dungeon as a dps. Thus, they become impatient and lazy, and expect the tank to make up for it.
If a dps dies, they blame the tank when they were the ones who just pulled a group of casters. If the tank dies, they blame the tank for not being geared enought when the healer went afk. I've even seen a person say in trade that the only person in a group that needs to be geared is the tank.
It used to be "if the tank dies, it's the healers fault, if the healer dies, it's the tanks fault, if a dps dies, it's their own fault" now its more like "if any one dies, kick the tank". We have no choice but to live with it, or dps ourselves.
Simply, things have changed. Wrath completely removed CC from heroics, turning all instances into AOE, AOE, AOE, next. AOE, AOE, next. Warriors have always been the worst heroic tanks, and though we're a little better than in TBC, we still are a good step behind Pallies, DKs, and bears.
It's honestly not a fun time to return to wow if you're a tank. DPS expect 10 min heroics, with no marking, no cc, no waiting for aggro, no focus targeting and chain pulling. If you need gear, it's less frustrating to just queue as dps and grab badges.
If you're rusty and want to queue as a tank, you're going to need some thick skin
Look at the zerg fest that WoW has become as a way to improve your reactionary skills. I came back from a hiatus as well with 28k HP in naxx gear, and found the challenge fun after the brain-numbing tanking that was DK. The thing I've always loved about warriors are the tools, we have so many. Just set the ground rules with your group. "Kill Skull then feel free to AoE" or something along those lines.
After coming back from a break most everyone will outgear you. You've got to shine on your own. My second spec on armory is my Heroic Tanking spec. If you're having trouble with the AoE tanking check it out.
I personally like the way heroics work now. If you'd ever tanked Shadow Labyrinth as a warrior at level 70 with a group all in blues, you know what a grueling experience it could be, if people weren't competent at CC.
Now, a good tank can usually manage multi-mob tanking with a lot more control over the pull. Additionally, if you're a fan of CC, there are plenty of opportunities for it. With good groups in FoS, its not unusual to see one of those casters in a big pull repetenced/sheeped. If dumb dps are pulling off you, let them tank until they figure it out.
Last time I got a dumb dps pulling mobs off me was while doing achievement on first boss of UP. He nuked first abomination when i said stop dps... I pulled 2nd and said don't dps and the boomkin kept spell spam going on.
Originally Posted by Griff
I gave him the pleasure of tanking and getting killed (the healer was the one who wanted the achievement, so he didn't heal him). After that boss all I could see him doing was just hitting mobs with staff. The troublesome part was that we had to replace him for a guy with a brain :S
So I'd like to thank everyone again for their great advice.
The changes have made a huge difference. I have cleave macro'd to the tab function now, so whenever I tab, devastate (or revenge/SS) it cleaves. ez-pz. numbers start flying all over the screen now.
This morning I got into Heroic:Strat and a druid made a comment about my low HP. Rocked the instance, no deaths, made the timer and got a bronze drake.
Tonight I ran Heroic FoS (the instance which got me to start this thread) and again, rocked it, no deaths. A couple stragglers got away from me to harass the healers/ranged DPS but I've got taunt macro'd to Heroic Throw and *boom* they come back to me.
I had a heroic HoS where a shaman asked someone to link dps meters. I just laughed and said you're asking us who won the special olympics? He then got in a rant about how in a previous group another dps was in quest blues and that he had to "carry" him. I just replied to him carry means you had to dps or the heroic boss would enrage and wipe the floor with you which would never happen.
Every guild has these guys and im sure you know who they are. They do good dps but they usually pull aggro and die and/or suck at ccing and interrupts in a raid. The dungeon system did make queues faster but also opened up these players from other realms with also. When i used to do dungeons on my realm you would try to perform well so if anything happened to your guild you would have a good reputation to fall back on with this system who cares about reputation the only contact you will ever have will be for heroics. If they are really bad right click their name in the chat box and put them on ignore.
Thanks all I see its not me :cool: