DW DK Frost Tank

So, to get straight to the point, I am a DW Frost tank who is having problems tanking. I was a BE pally tank in BC, but I am quite sure that dk tanking is different from consencrate/afk the whole fight. Here is my armory in tank gear/spec. I am having issues finding enough gear to get both a decent amount of health, and the defense cap. And in few cases, I am having issues holding aggro. My cycle for tanking is usually icy touch for the trinket proc, then HB-Obliterate-BS- and if needed, unbreakable armor and IBF. On aoe mobs, I use HW DND and bloodboil.

I am wondering if anyone could tell me (whether or not they think, or know) what I am doing wrong with the cycle, and what I should do with the gear in order for me to be able to tank in a heroic/raid.

One of the big problems with DW tanking in 3.2 is the lack of the Stoneskin Gargoyle rune, which gives a huge amount of both stamina and defense. Luckily, they're fixing that in 3.3, which is supposed to drop any week now. So when that patch hits, you're going to gain a lot of health (first the 2% from SSG itself, then more stamina by dumping defense gems for stamina).

However I see a lot of problems here besides class mechanics - hardly any of your gear is enchanted and gemmed, your spec and glyphs are bad, you have absolutely no professions and thus no profession bonuses, and worst of all, you're dual wielding FAST weapons.

Fast weapons are horrible for a DK. Once 3.3 hits, you're going to want to switch from fast tank weapons (which cause your strikes to hit like a kitten) to slow dps weapons (like Tankards of Terror if you can afford them, 2.5 or 2.6 speed are ideal for DW).

Until 3.3 hits, run more heroics and regular ToC. There are a lot of upgrades for you in those places (conquest badges will still be useful even with another emblem nerf, because you can trade them down for rings and a nice cloak that you can't get with the triumph badges).

I have all the gear from normal TOC and as I said, I am having issues running heroics. I also have a two hander spear from heroic TOC, which I had enchanted with stoneskin, and I had less stamina then when I had dw.

Of course, your right about the gear being enchanted, as I have as many gem slots filled as I have.. I had not wanted to enchant the wrist shoulders and head though since they were just blues.

Now, I don't understand why I need tankards to help tank better though. I thought that the whole point of DW was so that you get the extra stats from the tanking swords and axes?

If you are going to tell me my spec and glyphs are bad, you could atleast tell me why, and a thought of how to fix it???

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Originally Posted by Sefirosu

Now, I don't understand why I need tankards to help tank better though. I thought that the whole point of DW was so that you get the extra stats from the tanking swords and axes?

If you are going to tell me my spec and glyphs are bad, you could atleast tell me why, and a thought of how to fix it???

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The "point" of going DW tank in 3.2 is just to be original and "out of the box" I guess, because it's clearly inferior to 2h tanking. In 3.3, this will change, we will see if one is clearly better than the other.

Slow weapons help you tank better because they have higher top-end weapon damage. See how all your strikes deal a % of weapon damage? You want the slowest weapons possible to take full advantage of that - fast weapons mean your Obliterate and Rune Strike hit like a kitten rather than a truck.

And I've never DW tanked before so I can't give very good advice, however if I were to create a DW tank spec for you... well, it would be this.

The important stuff:

- Hungering Cold is useless in PvE. Same goes for the glyph.

- Bladed Armor adds a ton of threat.

- At least one point in Scent of Blood is recommended, to help keep your RP bar full, but three is usually overkill.

- You missed Improved Icy Touch. That 6% reduced attack speed may not seem like much, but over the course of a fight or an entire instance it adds up to a lot of damage reduction.

- Acclimation is bad 99% of the time. It has a few legitimate uses here and there (all in raids), but it's not something you should go into except for the occasional gimmick fight.

- Ravenous Dead is not worth the points. 1% strength per talent point is not a good deal for a tank.

- Deathchill is a very useful talent. Pop it right before a big AoE pull, and open up with Howling Blast for instant AoE threat.

The spec and glyph suggestion do seem really good, I will be sure to switch that over right away. Thanks!

As for gear wise, since I am not up to the defence cap, should I use all my gem slots for defence rating? Or should I stay full stam.. >.<

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Originally Posted by Sefirosu

The spec and glyph suggestion do seem really good, I will be sure to switch that over right away. Thanks!

As for gear wise, since I am not up to the defence cap, should I use all my gem slots for defence rating? Or should I stay full stam.. >.<

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Oh no, 540 (or 535 for heroics I should say) is your #1 concern always. I was talking about once the new patch drops and you can afford to drop some of the defense gems.

thank you again.

Now, as for proffesions, should I get mining and BS simply for the stam buff? Or should I get LW and Skinning for the 50 stam to wrist? Or maybe something else???

The most useful professions to a tank are ones that give you stamina. Luckily, they all give stamina except for:

- Inscription, which gives you 40 dodge rating (dodge is OK, but it's not as good as stam)

- Engineering, which on top of nifty gadgets, give you 800 armor to gloves (if you feel you can do without the 2% threat enchant on your gloves, 800 armor is a lot of mitigation)

- Alchemy, which gives you stronger flasks - if you use Flask of Stoneblood, it gives you as much health as any other profession would (I loooooove alchemy)

- Skinning, which gives you crit (crit is an OK threat stat but nothing you should really seek out)

- Herbalism, which gives you a very weak heal (skip it)

There are other things to take into consideration, like how easy a given profession is to level - if you have money to spend on professions, getting two crafting professions like BS/JC is recommended. If not, getting one or two gathering professions is recommended.

Jewelcrafting should get extra consideration because the JC tank trinket is so damn strong still. You put in a couple of 30 stamina gems, and it's worth 123 stamina on top of having an awesome dodge on-use (it's superior to the brewfest trinkets and the black heart). It makes me wish I hadn't rolled BS/Alch on my tank (too cheap to switch BS over to JC).

I wouldn't place the JC tank trinket above the Black Heart, not at all.

As for professions JC and Mining have great synergy and give you the stam bonuses.

As for DW tanking, the only realistic answer I can give is: don't. For the moment DW tanking is inferior to 2handed unless you have very high gear levels (even then the threat will be lacklustre). There's a reason you don't see many DW tanks. Once 3.3 hits it may be viable, for the moment stick to 2handed if you want to be taken seriously as a tank.

There's a good thread on the pro and cons of the different "tanking" professions. Personally, I use JC and Enchat for my tank; I like the combo. Since I have a leveled BS/Miner it make leveling the JC a bit easier, but the last 15 points of Enchanting are a bear.

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Originally Posted by vine

I wouldn't place the JC tank trinket above the Black Heart, not at all.

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How do you figure?

Black Heart = 126 stamina and a powerful but unreliable armor proc

JC Crab = 123 stamina (assuming you use two 30 stam gems in it) and a good dodge on-use with a very short cooldown

I'd say the JC trinket wins. You can't rely on the random proc to be there for you when you need it - much better to have a cooldown handy that you can time.

i guess at lower gear levels the JC trinket wins, it provides negligible dodge for me now. I much prefer +armour these days though, even if it is unreliable.

I think the real point here is that the difference is almost negligible. You can choose either of these and do well. Whichever you choose is simply up to you due to the way you value gear itself. The difference between them is how you want to get things done and neither will make-or-break an attempt and turn it into a killshot unless you rely on too much RNG.

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Originally Posted by vine

i guess at lower gear levels the JC trinket wins, it provides negligible dodge for me now. I much prefer +armour these days though, even if it is unreliable.

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I suppose that makes sense. I still prefer not to rely on random procs though (I make an exception for Mongoose, because it procs so damn often)... maybe I'm being irrational?