Sucky nooby tank needs help!

I was in VH the other day in a pug when the DK started going off into one about me not holding aggro - I probably said the wrong thing when I said that it was part of his job to manage it properly, and he got all pi**y at me, so I walked.

I later got a /w telling me that I was the worst tank he ever met, that I suck, and that I was a 'pattetic noob'.

I would also point out here that I did explain, before we even went in that I was still gearing up so be careful on the aggro.

Anyway, I am working to get my def cap to 540, I have my eye on the Wyrmguard Legplates in Dala (I need 4 more Emblems of Conquest for the 39 required) and I am working on Sons of Hodir rep (and will be starting on Ebon Blade rep soon).

Here is my armory link, and I would be grateful for any suggestions on gear, gems, talents, etc. I try to follow the rotations that I found the other day on here (the 4 step one which starts with Shield Slam), and I have also been trying to take on board and use hints from guildies (they tell me I am improving, which is hopefully a good sign!).

The legs are not a bad idea, however there are some decent starting legs from HVH so there may be some better spots to upgrade. Possibly a ring?

If i were you I would definitely get into looking at wyrmrest accord rep for the chestplate there.

With triumph badges coming out for heroics soon... I would definitely look into getting yourself set up with things you wont replace w/ those. The rings, necks etc are a great choice until you can get into raiding etc.

Take a look at this http://www.tankspot.com/forums/f97/4...gear-list.html

It will help you make the right choices.

Using Glyphs would help. If you're having problems with aggro I'd consider devastate, blocking, vigilance, and thunder clap.

Consider using one of the protection specs that goes through deep wounds in the arms tree.

If you can work on the heroic dailys you'll be able to get the Clutch of Fortification which would be a nice upgrade to your ring.

Practice, practice, practice. The gear will only get you so far.

Plus, Pugs can be brutal.I only do heroics if 1 or 2 of my guildies are with me. I'm gearing up too, takes time.

If you can get guildmates to run totc normal with you, you'll grab some nice gear that would upgrade what you have too.

Stick at it, do what you did and tell pugs you are gearing up, and ignore idiots who lay into you

Several things have already been touched on, and I'll repeat some of them here.

First thing, if you're having aggro problems, switch to the 15/5/51 spec. Deep Wounds is a very considerable threat gain. It will also give you improved charge which will give you a rage boost on pulls since you can charge into them. For glyphs i would recommend, Devastate, Blocking, and Cleaving. Vigilance is ok, but i find having cleave hit a third target to be more beneficial for all the trash in heroics.

Second, do Wintergrasp or some BGs and farm out 10k honor, then go pick up the greater inscription of the gladiator from Champions Hall in SW. Its 30stam and 15 res for your shoulders.

Third, there are lots of craftable pieces that are upgrades for you. Both blacksmithing and jewelcrafting. Look into getting some of those made.

You could easily regem/reenchant and gain over 100stam. That a pretty considerable chuck of health.

As for the aggro issue, thats both your job and the DPS's job. I have a prot warrior, a disc priest and a hunter. Hunter only has a 2300-2400 GS accoriding to wow-heroes(only been 80 a week and a half so gear isn't great), but i can still rip aggro off of almost any pug tank if i don't manage myself correctly, and thats a big part of being a good dps, playing to your tanks abilities. If i go in guns blazing, don't use MD or FD and i die cause i rip, thats my fault for being a douche. On the other hand, if i give the tank a few seconds, keep FD and MD on CD, and i'm still running him for threat, then he has a threat problem. I still won't pull( I stop attacking if i have to and just stand there) because it doesn't prove anything. All that being said, if I'm on the priest, I can't just not heal, so if i pull aggro from healing, its the tanks fault(or possibly the DPS's fault if they guffed up the pull somehow by attacking too early).

All that being said, while its easier to gear up with guildies, I maintain its much quicker to learn to tank in pugs. There is always someone in the pug that will do everything incorrectly. They will rip aggro, they will ninja pull, they will stand in fire, they won't do enough dps, they'll decided to taunt mobs to "help you", they'll roll on tank drops as a dpser, they'll scream at the healer if they didn't get healed through unhealable damage, they'll melee from infront of the boss lowering their damage and increasing the bosses damage output, etc. Basically if it can go wrong it will. And while this can be very frustrating to a greenhorn tank, it will infact let you see all the things that can go wrong in a raid/dungeon, and give you a chance to learn how to deal with it.

That's all I have for now. If you have followup questions feel free to post.

Thanks for all your tips and advice guys - I'll have a look for that spec you mentioned and sort out some glyphs - my guild are extremely supportive and are helping me out loads as well.

There is one thing that I am not at all confident about, and that is PvP. I tend to steer well clear of it, as experience tells me that, unless I manage to get them by surprise, I will normally come off second best (even if I win the victim has returned with reinforcements!). Stun-lock/die is not a fun way to play!

Nevertheless, I'll give WG a go and see what happens

if your doing lots of heroics and picking up stonekeeper shards you can turn in 150 of them i think for 10k honor if you dont want any other loot for them...otherwise pvp to get 10k honor its not to bad even if you get killed ever 10 seconds its still honor for doing it...so i usually stick it out on whatever charecter im on

well you have no glyphs, so straight away a vigilance glyph is 5% threat from another player

Dont worry bro. When you newly ding 80 and start tanking/healing/dpsing you WILL suck its called progression.

I sucked in HCs, geared up a bit from emblems and dont anymore. i'm now quite good at naxx and ulduar even. but ToC10..i suck.

one thing that will make you feel a little more confident is knowing you're using the right rotations, glyphs (as discussed above) and enchant/gem anything you got at the moment. Even if its not what you're gonna stick with, there is no reason to be sloppy (being a tank just isnt a cheap hobby).

I'm by no means a fantastic tank (yet) but alot of these guys are and can point you in the right direction. I just wanted to put in my pennies worth as i totally recognise that feeling of doubt.

In a couple of months, you're gonna be rockin while the DK will be finding it difficult to get in a group due to the fact DKs are like butt holes - everybody's got one!

:)

You may want to look at your rotation to make sure you are doing everything correctly.

http://www.tankspot.com/forums/f14/4...-rotation.html This link is for single target threat but you can see what gives most threat dependant on the glyphs you use and what you spec into.

One of the things you get used to realllllly fast as a lvl 80 tank is being blamed for a lot. If the healer doesn't heal you, and you take 7 or 8 hits in a row, its your fault for being hit too much. If dps pulls aggro off you because they think it's a good idea to attack a mob when you've only taunted him and they are still running your way...it's your fault. I tanked H UP on my pally maybe 10 minutes after I hit 80. I only had 22k unbuffed health, 540 defense, and low low stats. My healer when invited to the group asked...ok so who's tank, and I said I am...and he ditched out. I asked why she left and she's all, sorry I roll heroics with 40k hp tanks. Pugs are...brutal sometimes.

With that said...if I had looked you up on the armory for my tank and saw you had no glyphs...at all, it would raise a slight concern. Even for my off-spec that I only use once in a blue moon I have glyphs for...sounds silly but they really do help and you need em!

As I said, I play a pally so I am not very up to speed on warrior tanking but from what I have heard from my warrior tanks, parry and block > dodge for a warrior (does dodging an attack generate rage?). Yes dodge is still good, but I wouldn't be using dodge trinkets / ring if you are not yet def capped. Defense trinkets are hard to come by...but farm regular HoL for Seal of the Pantheon - Item - World of Warcraft I used that for a long to help with the drop in defense starting out at level 80.

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Originally Posted by Daísy

I was in VH the other day in a pug when the DK started going off into one about me not holding aggro - I probably said the wrong thing when I said that it was part of his job to manage it properly, and he got all pi**y at me, so I walked.

I later got a /w telling me that I was the worst tank he ever met, that I suck, and that I was a 'pattetic noob'.

I would also point out here that I did explain, before we even went in that I was still gearing up so be careful on the aggro.

Anyway, I am working to get my def cap to 540, I have my eye on the Wyrmguard Legplates in Dala (I need 4 more Emblems of Conquest for the 39 required) and I am working on Sons of Hodir rep (and will be starting on Ebon Blade rep soon).

Here is my armory link, and I would be grateful for any suggestions on gear, gems, talents, etc. I try to follow the rotations that I found the other day on here (the 4 step one which starts with Shield Slam), and I have also been trying to take on board and use hints from guildies (they tell me I am improving, which is hopefully a good sign!).

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Welcome to the world of tanking; put the noob dps on ignore and go about your business and learn your craft. I can safely say we've all run into this at some point and just have to learn you can't argue with idiots. Also, it's really a PuG thing, in any guild I've raided with any dps that whined at the tank would be bounced for someone who knew how to manage their toon.

One thing that may help while learning more about tanking is to use Kill order marks if you weren't already, and ask that the dps stick to them. That way it makes it easier for you to hold aggro. Glyphing will also make a big improvement. Some good choices for AoE threat are Cleave and Vigilance. If you're tanking more than one mob, make sure to replace Heroic Strike spam with Cleave spam... if you're not using Heroic Strike already, start to. It adds a lot of threat. One thing to get use to is not using a set rotation, but rather responding to the situation. If there are multiple mobs, use Cleave and Thunder Clap a lot, and Shockwave when you're able to. Cycle through mobs and throw up Devastates and Shield Slams, etc. If there is only one mob, use Heroic Strike a lot, and make sure to Shield Slam whenever Sword and Board procs. A free Shield Slam is not to be missed!
You're already on the right track, though, asking for advice and having a good attitude about it. By telling people that you're just learning the ropes and gearing up, you'll occasionally get jerks like that dpser who you don't want to play with anyway, but most of the time you'll find people willing to help you out, offer advice, and work towards helping you be better. Just keep at it, and you'll get there! Good luck!

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Originally Posted by Daísy

Thanks for all your tips and advice guys - I'll have a look for that spec you mentioned and sort out some glyphs - my guild are extremely supportive and are helping me out loads as well.

There is one thing that I am not at all confident about, and that is PvP. I tend to steer well clear of it, as experience tells me that, unless I manage to get them by surprise, I will normally come off second best (even if I win the victim has returned with reinforcements!). Stun-lock/die is not a fun way to play!

Nevertheless, I'll give WG a go and see what happens

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My advice for PvP if you're nervous about it, would be to prot pvp. Put on any pieces of gear you have that have SBV on them and go to town. Rogues will kill themselves on your damage shield, other melee with have a hell of a time with you. You have multiple stuns(conc blow, shockwave, revenge if talented), interrupts+silences(shield bash and heroic throw if talented), disarm, dispel(shield slam), spell reflect, charge+intercept+intervene to move around fast, thunderclap/demo shout to reduce damage from melee classes, intimidating shout to fear (also interrupts casting), etc. Some of these you have access to as arms or fury, but prot pvp can be a lot of fun.

If none of that sounds fun, you can always wear your normal tank gear and farm AV. Just tank galv and drek.

If you are struggling with defense here are the tips I can offer. There's no reason not to be able to hit 540 defense even with blues.

-Enchant shield with defense. It's going to be best in slot enchant until you get to hard mode 25 man raiding.
-There is a +12 defense to bracers enchant from Burning Crusades. Ask in trade if anybody has it.
-I'm not sure why you used epic gems like dodge/defense on a blue belt, much less a nightmare tear. Stick to pure defense gems until you are capped, and don't blow your money on epic gems for gear you will replace very quickly! You will be broke at that rate.
-You are close to sons of hodir honored, which will help alot. I would not pvp for the shoulder enchant, personally. Also, as mentioned earlier, Wyrmrest rep is the first rep to concentrate on, then Argent Crusade for the helm enchant.
-Finally, you need 535 defense for heroics, 540 for raids. you are very close to 535 defense rating, you just need a small nudge using one of the suggestions above (or a gear upgrade).

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Originally Posted by Daísy

I later got a /w telling me that I was the worst tank he ever met, that I suck, and that I was a 'pattetic noob'.
.

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Wait....you mean there is someone worse than me?? :p

While you need to get def cap at 535 for heroics, it sounds like your issue here was aggro. For starters, try the following rotation: charge, TC, DM shout and SW. This works well for that initial aggro on multiple mobs. Afterward, tab each mob and apply a devastate and shield slam and revenge every time its up. I will hit TC and SW when the cds are down as well. Do that and you should not have aggro issues.

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Originally Posted by Korbandallas

Wait....you mean there is someone worse than me?? :p

While you need to get def cap at 535 for heroics, it sounds like your issue here was aggro. For starters, try the following rotation: charge, TC, DM shout and SW. This works well for that initial aggro on multiple mobs. Afterward, tab each mob and apply a devastate and shield slam and revenge every time its up. I will hit TC and SW when the cds are down as well. Do that and you should not have aggro issues.

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Demo shout goes a little further down.
Charge, Shield Slam, Devastate, etc. for single target
Charge, TC while backpeddling, Shockwave when they are within your cone, etc. for multimobs

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Originally Posted by Insahnity

I'm not sure why you used epic gems like dodge/defense on a blue belt, much less a nightmare tear. Stick to pure defense gems until you are capped, and don't blow your money on epic gems for gear you will replace very quickly! You will be broke at that rate.

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I used those gems as I have a Jewelcrafter, and earned her a couple of skill points!

As for Wyrmrest, I now have a tabard which should help raise my rep when running heroics :)

And I have started collecting some glyphs too - I hope to have a few more by the end of today - we have a couple of people with Inscription in our guild. One of my alts (not listed here) also has Inscription but she is only level 20 so of limited use.

Thanks again for all your tips - I haven't had a chance to use much of them yet but hope to this evening!

I play a DK tank and a warlock so I'm familiar with threat issues on both sides. Overall, it sounds like the dps DK was a jerk. That being said - there are a few things one can do as a new tank to help the situation out.

Unless you're certain you can maintain AoE threat, mark a kill order. At the very least, skull your first target. If you don't do that and the mobs are all close together, it can be very hard for the dps to see who your target is and if they pick incorrectly... they're going to pull aggro. If you mark things will be better. Use some marking addon or mouseover macro to make marking go faster.

I don't play a warrior so I won't pretend to know about your spec. However, always give vigilance to someone (if a warlock is your group they're a safe bet - they put out tons of threat).

DPS will on occasion pull mobs off you in 5man trash. This is bad if it happens at the beginning of a trash pull, but I don't think it's a problem if it happens at the end of a trash pull - ie there are 3 and you take out the first one, switch to the second and someone else pulls aggro on the 3rd but it's dead fast. This is fine as long as DPS isn't unrealistic - if then it's their own fault.

Finally, my advice would be to change your attitude in pugs a bit. You're the tank. That means you're the leader whether you like it or not. Walk in like you own the place. Even if you don't think you know what's going on, you're still the leader and you set the pace by how fast you pull. Be firm, be decisive. If you appear weak, chances are someone will react to that and think they need to give out instructions or blame you if things go wrong - even if it isn't your fault. Don't be afraid to give out instructions. I'm not saying to be a pompous jerk, but often times some assertiveness will go a long way towards making things run smoothly.

Just a quick update: thank you all for your suggestions - I've upgraded my gear, added gems and enchants where possible, and changed one or two here and there as well, and things seem to be going a lot better as a result.

Now I just need to read up on tanking multiple mobs!

If anyone has any further suggestions about my gear/gems/enchants/anything else I would be pleased to hear them :)

Thanks again!