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I'm just curious as to what addon you use that gives you the nice DBM-style count-down bar for your Slam procs. I've been looking for something exactly like that for a long while.
I loved the video. I already knew most of it, but the nitty-gritty stuff like the exact rotation and the use Recklessness before Deathwish stuff was very useful (it helped us get Anub down in ToGC-10 tonight!). I will definitely be directing all my aspiring Fury warriors to this page!
I dont know exactly what he uses, but the addon i use for this is called classtimers.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunderwhere
Yeah because everyone cares that you can pull insane deeps on trash...!But i do somewhat agree with you that imp cleave should be standard. Definitely in TOC and im guessing that there is gonna be fights with adds and such in ICC. I always have taken it imp cleave because i never really even use it because i always have a ret pally with imp might.Quote:
Originally Posted by Taiva
Anyway TGM, another great video. Keep them coming
Off topic I know, but does anyone know what addon/options makes his damage display in that font?
[QUOTE=Quietsch;314376]If you are at the hardcap without precision. It is impossible, to get the dps, you get from precision, through another talent.
(Assumed, you have imp. BoM or battle shout.)
If I remember correctly, precision is a talent that gives me 3% to my hit. I think I have close to 300 hit already.... Im wondering if I can respec to exclude precision or if I should leave it in for white hits and rage generation. I dont think I have to go all the way to the hard cap for dual welding to drop precision, should I?
Hey warriors! Good vid / write-up, and thanks for taking the time to do it, im sure many fury wars will be greatly helped in their pursuit of DPS! Allow me to add a few thoughts for consideration.
First, you dont like improved beserker rage i take it; however, your justification - killing a GCD / wasting it when its needed for fear break - really doesnt apply to ToC... if your low on rage, and your going to be starved on your next attack, wasting a GCD for 20 rage + more rage on damage taken = a good thing in my opinion. Also, you neglected one of the key benefits to imp zerker rage, which ever-so-many warriors fail to realize: it allows you to start fights, and transition between phases, with FULL RAGE! obviously, if your tanks cant handle your threat, then theres no need for it. If they can, you can open full swing and commence heroic strike action off the bat. if your vigilanced, thats more threat for your tank. And most importantly, if you use grim toll / mjollnir, you are aware of the ever-present danger of the first 3 attacks proc... with full rage, this is no longer an issue. (assuming you arent equipping and unequipping it prefight)
As to your section on UW, it is a good talent, however, my rationale for taking it is simple: our other lower tier talents blow! if you have paladins in your raids, particularly a ret, improved BS/DS = unnecessary. Improved commanding is a luxury, it does not help DPS. If those few extra HPs keep you or a tank alive, its most likely because a healer didnt do their job. This is why almost all warrior take imp cleave. If you do HM anub, cleave is necessary. On a personal note, i dont execute unless its on a stunned Icehowl....
Lastly, a talent that goes unmentioned, but has decent raid viability in ToC is -Enrage-. Fights like Beasts, Twins, and Anub (p3 especially) allow Enrage to become a steady % dmg modifier, dont think ive had a fight in which it didnt proc > 2x. A calculation on the probability of it proccing, and the dps increase, is not very helpful. What those calculations dont factor in is, those situations where your have a bunch of CDs / ApR trinket used and a 2-10% dmg modifier makes a gigantic difference.
As a question TheGreatMe, why do you take rend in the arms tree? there may be some intel im lacking in regards to rend, but im not sure.
Also, for those fresh warriors out there, you would do well to realize that a fury warrior does more than just DPS - we debuff, we sunder, we knock down friends threat, we tank when needed, we are highly mobile, we interrupt -... for the people proclaiming improved intercept is a good talent, you either dont know the encounter well enough, or your making bad judgment calls; you absolutely should not need to intercept more than 1x every 30-45 seconds. If you do, you either used it on something unnecessary, failed to position yourself appropriately so as to not need it, or you forgot that you can always stance dance intervene back as a last resort. Intercept should definately not be an issue on Beasts, Jaraxxus, or Twins.
Getting back to my point, if you run around focusing just on keeping your rotation and maximizing your dps, you will only be fulfilling half your role as a raider. I would add that the key to being a great warrior raider, in concert with this guide, is the ability to mantain this rotation, as much as possible, blindly (blindly = while focusing on doing the other things that make warriors so useful, and not watching your bars).
Doing great dps as a fury war is expected, but it does not make you a great raider. Always remember that, many times, your value as a warrior is about more than mere DPS output...
Bookers
@bookers.. I'm guessing TGM takes imp rend for when be switches to battle stance for different reasons such as shattering throw. Also it's used as a filler talent to get Impale and deeps wounds and such.
Thegreatme what addons are you using?
Also fantastic video, subscribed to your youtube channel.
He has a video about his UI at his YouTube channel. Channel name is TGMofLOS.Quote:
Originally Posted by Softncuddly
On berserker rage:
eating a GCD is still relevant in ToC because unless you are using berserker rage during your free GCD you are going to screw up the rotation which will result in a DPS loss. also I do know about using it + bloodrage to start a fight 100 rage, which is a very nifty trick, but that's really all it is, a nifty trick. it is by no means necessary and I honestly would prefer a bit more raid utility by putting my points elsewhere.
On commanding presence:
improved commanding shut is a personal luxury but giving everyone in the raid an extra ~600 hp is very very nice on some hardmodes like algalon, faction champs, and twins. you mention that half of a warriors job is to be a raid utility (which is totally correct) but then you say that commanding presence is mediocre? commanding presence is a raid utility.
On imp cleave:
CURRENTLY, imp cleave is amazing and pretty much required for hardmode ToC. but it may not always be this way. things may change, for all we know there could be barely any cleave fights in ToC and it might end up being better putting points in imp execute. It's not a required talent because it's not a required ability on most fights.
On enrage:
Enrage isn't any thing special, it never really has been anything special. the problem with enrage is that blizzard has stated that they do not intend for it to be proc'ing off of aoe raid damage. this means that in order for it to proc, you have to be getting hit. and in ToC the only mobs that are going to hit you, and not kill you/nearly kill you are the snowbolds on Beasts, and the scarabs on anub'arak. there are much better places for you to put your points. people have been testing enrage time and time again on EJ and the general consensus has been that there are better places to put your points which will be more useful to you/your raid.
On imp rend:
this sums it up exactlyQuote:
@bookers.. I'm guessing TGM takes imp rend for when be switches to battle stance for different reasons such as shattering throw. Also it's used as a filler talent to get Impale and deeps wounds and such.
On raid utility:
I agree with everything you said but the point of this guide initially was planned to be for warriors who are going to be just starting to play or trying fury as an offspec. I would totally be cool with making a guide specifically about ideal min/max'ing and raid utilities for warriors (I already have a basic guide on this topic on my youtube channel but I am talking about making a tankspot one) at some point in time but the goal is to provide players with as much useful information possible but also not overload them with technicalities and nuances.
On the topic of the rotation comparrision I made a new thread. I think Quitsch is right there.
Also I wanted to state, that I really appriciate the guide Thegreatme did come up with, as I am myself not a fulltime Fury Warrior and the guide held some really interesting information for me. And to be honest I'm just a casual gamer anyway, as my time for WoW is pretty sparse at the moment.
I just get all involved with the numbers sometimes :o.
There are no available talents giving you better dps than precision for the same number of points, even if you can afford to not spec it (ie you are at 8% hit without it). To put it simply, if you are at 5% hit or less, Precision is great, but when you are over 5%, its still the best dps increase out of what you can get. The fact hit changes from top priority to the worst dps stat once over the 8% yellow attacks cap doesnt change the fact 3% for 3 talent points is a very good deal - if we could get haste, strength, arp, crit or agility instead, we would, but all we are offered is stuff like Improved Execute, or some more utility - Heroic Fury etc. In some cases, sacrificing precision for more raid utility might be a good idea, but dpswise, precision is not worth dropping.Quote:
Originally Posted by Unger
Well written. Very polished looking. a few minor flaws but it gets you goin' on a fury warrior
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kahmal
@HS: No, it's simply calculated (wpndmg+495)*2(.2) as crit.
(And even if the white crit was calculated first, it would only be a little bit overrated, as there are also the other things (impale, glancing blows, hit) it influences.)
@Slam: Short form: Yes, you loose proccs, but it isn't worth it, to delay BT and take every single BS procc.
longer form: http://www.tankspot.com/forums/f177/...mparision.html ;)
Just wanted to throw another thanks out there for taking the time to put this guide together and for all involved in the 'deep' 'deeps' discussion. I messed around with my key bindings, changed up my rotation, inserted some noob JC gems and found my dps went way up. I'm not a full time fury warrior either and protection is my main spec, but its always nice to have this kind of info readily available, good stuff.
Ive seen this question asked a few times in multiple other threads, and once in this one, and not seen a solid answer.
Almost every min/max oriented fury warrior i see is running 3/3 Iron will, and 2/3 Tactical Mastery. However i cannot wrap my head around the reasoning behind this. I know even as fury I am asked/partially required to time my shattering throw with bloodlusts. As such I dont think its justifiable to go 3/3 Iron Will which doesnt have alot of overall use in raids, vs running 3/3 tactical mastery which allows you to dance, shatter, and revert all without ever needing to throw out an extra melee swing just to build the rage to shatter. Now I would like to hear from everyone running 3/3 iron will, and 2/3 tactical mastery with some solid reasons behind why its being used over 2/3 IW, 3/3 TM.
The only benefit I see to Iron Will 3/3 is maybe its helpful on Faction Champs and Icehowl. I run 3/3 Tactical Mastery so I can shattering throw, personally.
One subject not covered is the usage of Sunder Armor. This ability, if no other warrior is present in the raid is mandatory. Most raids will need this applied 5x as soon as possible when the fight begins and then replied within 30 seconds to keep the debuff up.
I use a macro for this which seems to work quite well.
/script UIErrorsFrame:Hide()
/cast Sunder Armor
/show tooltip
/startattack
/cast Bloodrage
/cast Cleave
/script UIErrorsFrame:Clear()
/script UIErrorsFrame:Show()
Right away you are going to say that this will create a rage loss. You will be correct if you don't watch your rage and the timer on your Sunder and cast it accordingly.
Yes, my dps is a little lower using this but in all fairness, the dps is not all about me but the over all benefit the raid receives.
As for Heroic Strike, there is good and bad in spamming Heroic Strike. This is all dependent on the boss. If we are taking damage on a consistent level then Spamming HS is advisable. A good example would be XT. I find myself spamming HS non stop.
As for Cleave, it seems to create a much higher dps than WW and this too, if used in the proper fight can be spammed. Example here would be Kologarn. You must position your self correctly where you can hit both the body and the right arm with it.
The reason why I use 3/3 IW and 2/3 TM is mostly just personal preference.
the way I see it is that you will spend on 35 rage in battle stance over ~3 seconds. in that time you are pretty much guaranteed to have both a MH and an OH hit occur, which is going to give you lots more rage than you are going to need. when you have 2/3 TM you will be able to switch with up to 20 rage and normally when you switch you will see a weapon hit with in like 0.5 seconds so there really isn't much delay. Yes you can get RNG'd and have to wait like 2 seconds if your weapons are synced and you switched as your auto attacks hit, but that's not common from my experiences. and I put those points in IW because of the stun duration reduction which is nice.
long story short: I do it because I actually want to inhibit the amount of rage I have in battle stance to a point, because any rage past 35 is going to get wasted when you switch back to berserker stance
EDIT: on my UI, the video on my channel is way way way out of date so you can look at it to see basically what mods I am using but don't download the file because the versions of that addons are very old. I plan on making a thread on the UI compilation boards in the near future keeping that thread updated as patches come out.