The Blood Tank - A discussion of my Experiences

Edgewalker - Thanks for catching that parry/dodge reference that I missed in the edit.

Regarding the AMS physical damage RP generation, it sure as hell does give you free RP atm. Not sure if this is a bug that just isn't well known but I have video proof that this does occur. If you don't want to wait for the video, go out and find a melee mob and test it for yourself.

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Originally Posted by Satorri

I've been contemplating writing an article on all the tools that many DK's do not get best use out of. Spells like Empower Rune Weapon, Blood Tap, Death Pact, Army of the Dead, and even AMS to a degree.

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please do so before the OP gets to it with a lot of misinformation. I do not want to have to recommend this site to new DK'S with a disclaimer... "OH go check out tankspot.com, but avoid thread a,b..." well you get the idea. I also do not wish to be inflammatory or bump this thread again, however more need to comment on the amount of disinformation that will only be cause for confusion amongst the new DK tanks

I finally made up the video quick and posted it to youtube clearly showing that Anti-Magic shell does grant free runic power even if you take physical damage.

YouTube - Anti-Magic Shell Free Runic Power Video

Hopefully this lays this issue to rest.

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Originally Posted by Eint

Regarding the AMS physical damage RP generation, it sure as hell does give you free RP atm. Not sure if this is a bug that just isn't well known but I have video proof that this does occur. If you don't want to wait for the video, go out and find a melee mob and test it for yourself.

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The video didn't work, but either way, that's the most minuscule issue I had.

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Originally Posted by Krenian

One of the things I wanna point out to most people making guides as a suggestion:

One of the KEY things that people need to understand is that there will never be a 'set in stone' guide when playing a tanking class. We all have certain things we do while tanking that work and that do not work. Some people simply enjoy playing the game and knowing how to properly do things.

A tanking guide is very hard to do because there are some things that some individuals do that seem right to then AND work. An emphasis on the key talents is something I would suggest any individual to focus on as this is a universal agreement upon.

But if you plan on giving any specs, know that you WILL get chewed up for it by any individual that doesn't agree with point placement. Giving a cookie cutter build for any tanking guide is asking to put your head underwater and see how long you can breathe before it chokes you to death. There's too much disagreement.

If you plan on ever putting a build, please understand this note: Prove your points. State why you believe the talents you take are best for the situations you are doing. Linking a build and just saying "this is best for threat bar none" will get a lot of critique.

This generally is the same when it comes to lists about gems and enchants: There are so many different situations for different scenarios. Delving into this realm is going to show a lot of criticism. Be careful.

Just my two cents.

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Quoting a post I did in another thread because this one falls under the same situation.

Im going to side along zaubade here. Dont take offense but, although the initiative is commendable, the OPs(this and the frost tank one) lack the necessary knowledge for such an endeavor.

Once again, I stated multiple times in the guide that it is just my personal thoughts on tanking and these personal thoughts have been successful since beta of Wrath and up through release when tanking content.

Would prefer to see people constructively having a discourse rather than bandwagoners stating, "zomg your guide sucks cause X person said so and he is around a lot on the forums."

The concept of forums is to promote discourse and discussion.

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Originally Posted by Eint

Once again, I stated multiple times in the guide that it is just my personal thoughts on tanking
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The concept of forums is to promote discourse and discussion.

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Then with respect it should not be called a guide

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Originally Posted by Darksend

Then with respect it should not be called a guide

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This.

If it is thoughts and how you have made your way through the Beta Wrath times, then by all means you may wanna reword this to a thoughts and ideas thread and not say that it is a clearcut guide to how Blood Tanking works.

Discussion and opinion making is of course part of a forum, however you're misusing the word guide and causing a lot of people to wonder exactly why this should be a guide when some of the information found in the text contradicts certain individuals' views and points. And by certain I mean a lot.

You may want to review the title and name it "Personal reasoning and thoughts about Blood Tanking." and then go with your text. At least now people will understand that this is how you perceive to do your job the best and no longer think that this is an idea that you're trying to incorporate in the Death Knight spectrum as being the clear cut choice when it comes to being a Blood Spec'ed Death Knight Tank.

Title changed to reflect the thread's purpose.

Works for me, call it what you want. All guides by definition are subject to the thoughts of the author...

A guide isn't a doctrinal text, it's a selection of hints and tips, in my humble opinion. If he had written it as "An Instruction Manual for Optimum Blood Tanking" then maybe I'd have said the OP was wrong.

Something with 'My Guide to...' or 'The TopTank Guide to...' implicitly allows for reader discretion. Take what you want, leave what you don't. If you really feel moved to slather around the chops and point out issues with it, then that's cool by me (I'm not going to join you... I'm one of the silent masses that prefers to complain about restaurant food by simply not going to the same place again ;) ).

As for the guide itself, his thoughts are fair enough, and if they lead me to try something new (at least once) and it comes up trumps then it's all good.

I did look at the video and the RP bar was a bit faint. I didn't see the bar jump up massively (but then I might not on the given mob), but it did go up quicker than I'd expect with Butchery (if you had that spec'd, it's not in the specs you linked to).


Medemer
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If your Tour Guide took you out of the tourist attraction and instructed you to walk on all fours back to you the coach... would you?

In the THEORY section of this site, there are rules, and I think retitling away from 'guide' is consistent with that. People look in here for solid theory.

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Originally Posted by Medemer

If your Tour Guide took you out of the tourist attraction and instructed you to walk on all fours back to you the coach... would you?

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I hate logic like this... It is hardly logic at all... Of course nobody would do what is absolutely and utterly ridiculous...(unless there is alcohol or women involved) But let's say the guide is new... He has just started giving the tours... and he tells you in all reasonable confidence to cross a bridge with him.... unfortunately as he is new he does not know that the bridge has unstable spots and pitfalls.

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Originally Posted by Eint

Talents & Glyphs:
Option 1: Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft
Option 2: Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft

While both talent builds are definitely viable, I personally prefer to use Option 1 since it is designed to maximize threat generation while still maintaining a high general survivability. As with all classes, there are a few core talents that are required but either of these builds are very viable.

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• SoB is unneeded like i said before, but out of curiosity would you mind posting a combat log bc i'm very intriged on what you spend all that rp?
• no iit, typical EJ attitude, sure in the world of min/max it might be the best, on EJ no one takes support talents, after a while one could wonder who's gonna bring em if everyone thinks like that, especially bc all you gain is necrosis which although nice is mostly unneeded. which strikes me even more is that you don't pick up iit, but do pick up abdomination's might. i can imagine more situations where me having iit is usefull to the raid then me having an additional +10%ap buff (nvm this comment ofc if for some odd reason you don't have anyone else providing this buff)
• no rune tap, i can't say enough how usefull this is, but to everyone his own i guess

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Originally Posted by Eint

Weapon Enchantment: Rune of the Stoneskin Gargoyle
Even if you don't need the raw 25 Defense the 2% bonus to total Stamina still makes this enchantment wildly better than anything else available. This probably also goes without saying, but as a Blood Tank you will ALWAYS be using a big slow two-handed weapon. If you have the desire to dual-wield tank, then you shouldn't be reading this guide and instead be looking into a Frost Tank build.

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in my opinion you're cutting some corners here, i agree that stoneskin is the top enchant in most situations, but not in all situations. if you really want ppl to see this as a guide you'll have to show when to use which enchant.

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Originally Posted by Eint

Death and Decay: With out a doubt, Death and Decay should almost always be dropped at the start of every boss encounter before you pull. As a general strategy you should try to make sure that you start your pulls by placing Death and Decay and then letting your runes start their cooldown before using Death Grip to begin the encounter. This way you get the benefit of the massive threat generated by Death and Decay for building aggro at the beginning of the fight as well as making it so that your rune cooldowns will have already started, allowing you to start your rotation earlier.

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D&D has no place in single target tanking, also if you still insist on using a taunt to pull, use dark command over death grip, both are real taunt, but dark command has a shorter cd so you'll have it back earlier when you do need a taunt.

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Originally Posted by Eint

Death Grip: Not only is Death Grip a class defining ability with it's super cool graphic, it also happens to be the ONLY ability you should ever use when pulling mobs and bosses. This is not only due to the fact that it pulls your target directly to you (bosses and some mobs excluded), but guarantees that the target will attack you for 3-seconds making it impossible for silly DPS to pull aggro while you are getting the boss into position. Start EVERY fight with this ability to generate initial aggro.

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read above. and like edge said before, a taunt doesn't generate aggro when used at the start, it puts you on equal grounds with the person who currently has aggro, if you do it when boss is idle that's no one at 0 threat. so you gean a wooping 0 threat!

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Originally Posted by Eint

Tips and Tricks:
Raise Dead: With the minor Glyph of Raise Dead and a relatively short cooldown of 3-minutes, the smart Death Knight will make sure to use this ability often. Not only will your ghoul minion add to the overall DPS of the raid, but with a 1-minute maximum up-time, a Death Knight tank can make use of Death Pact as an extra cooldown to get out of sticky situations when your hit points are lower than desired.

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this is indeed under used by dk tanks, though it's probably better to summon him prior to a know hard hit rather then keep him on cd as the added rDPS will be neglectable anyway.

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Originally Posted by Eint

Anti-Magic Shell: By now you should already know that Anti-Magic Shell is a handy method for mitigating spell damage as a Death Knight tank, but you might not be familiar with it's use as an early fight threat generation ability. One of the areas where Death Knights can run into trouble is if your attacks and Rune Strikes miss a lot early in the fight due to the nature of random numbers. This is why Anti-Magic Shell should always be used at the start of the fight as well since it also grants free runic power based on damage taken. In a boss encounter, this roughly equates to a free bar of runic power per hit allowing you to spam Death Coil in-between rune abilities and thus generating extra threat at the start of the fight to lock aggro against your DPS raid members.

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although your AMS trick works, it's not something that is intended and probably will get fixed. so i doubt it's a good thing to get used to it. on top of that using a survival cd, as a threat tool is a nono in my book.
also once again what are you doing with all your rp? you raid without a tree/disc priest that you're that short on rp?

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Originally Posted by Eint

Hysteria: One of the benefits of using a Blood Death Knight Tank comes in the DPS bonus' that are provided to melee DPS. One of the key abilities is Hysteria which will increase all physical damage by 20% for 30-seconds. As a Blood Death Knight you should take note of your top raid melee DPS and expect cast Hysteria on them at key points where they can maximize the DPS benefit. Often I try to make sure that my use of Hysteria can coincide with abilities like Bloodlust, Icehowl's massive crash stun, or Valkyr's empowerment for some examples.

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best person is a feral druid(if ofc he's already one of the top dps), while he uses his berserk cd and out of heroism as berserk and heroism don't collide to well. easiest way is just to have the dps you cast it on track it himself and let him make a macro that whispers you when to cast it.