I feel like I messed up somewhere.

The World of Warcraft Armory

I feel like I overdid my gems due to the drop in mana back from my spell crits. I normally had runed rubies and brilliant autumns glow. Without hesitations I regemed to intellect and mp5 gems. In terms of my healing output for my guild Uld 10's I'm doing about the same. (I'm the MT healer with about 900 hps against a druid and shaman healer.)

I've noticed that I have been going oom faster and what confuses me is that I'm a FoL spammer and beacon abuser. So I'm curious if I really had to go out of my way and get the mp5 gems with the increase to mp5 on almost all the mp5 gear?

From what I've done working with Paladin healers in my guild, I believe INT to be the most important stat a Holy Paladin can have. Stacking MP5 is a good idea if you stay with FoL spam (but you don't necessarily have to gem for it,) as you'll get more mana point for point that way, but if you ever go HL Spam, it's a good idea to stack crit instead as you'll get more mana back that way.

There are quite a few cost-reducing talents that make HL spam viable now, and since Illumination is based off of base mana cost and stacking 4p T7 bonus, Libram of Renewal and Glyph of Seal of Wisdom greatly reduce the cost of the spell.

Erm, to get back on track, Intellect is where it's at lately for Holy Pallies, as an example, 100 INT give you something like:
126.5 Intellect, with BoK and Divine Intellect
1897 Mana
39.5mp5 from Divine Plea on CD.
21.3mp5 from Replenishment
25.3 Spell Power
~0.76% Spell Crit

Critical Heals end up healing for 1.5x more and cost 2/5 as much mana, at level 80 you'll get about 2.17% crit from 100CR. Crit starts out not being that great compared to other stats but winds up being amazing. It scales with itself because the mana you WOULD use casting the spell that crit can be used casting another spell it also scales with how big your effective mana pool is.
Haste is pretty nice, if you manage to get 20.6% haste rating (around 700 haste, kind of ridiculous I know) you'll be at a one second GCD.
MP5 is not totally worthless, but (and I didn't intend to be this long winded) but as you can see you didn't have to go out on a limb to get gemmed MP5.

Had to jump in here because apieceofenergy's advice is based on 3.1 Paladin mechanics and not 3.2.

It seems like you logged out in pvp gear so i can't see exactly how you gemmed, however it sounds like you've gone down the right track.

Intellect is still king, the benefits from both divine plea and the slightly nerfed replenshiment are just to great to ignore. Plus since judgements are now considered melee we can get some very tasty mana return from judging at range (chance at 4% max mana).

Crit really isn't worth to much anymore, although i never gemmed for it previously either, certianly Mp5 is the better regen stat on gear now.

Personally i went for full intellect gemming, ignoring poor socket bonuses. Spell power really isn't an issue for Holy Palas. I threw a green in my helm to keep the meta, and where i want the socket bonuses for red slots i go intel/sp.

Persoanlly i'm sitting at over 30k mana raid buffed in 10s, more in 25s. I find myself using FoL much more than previously but i find with beacon i'm able to raid heal really well. I also can happily spam holy lights when need be and a quick divine plea or LoH can regen a lot of mana.

You just have to be mindful of your mana a little more and use the quiter phases in boss fights to maximise your regen.

watch out for (not saying you do it ) but over healing, tanks can hold there own to an extent, what i meen is if they get hit for 3k etc don't heal them let them cop another hit (preempt the heal) then shot of the heal. it is a bad habit to get into making sure everyone is at 100% all the time, for example i seen a preist heal a tank that was short 1-3k he flashed for 4-5k and was doing it all night just so the tank was at 100% all the time.

if you got recount keep an eye on your overheal this could be a problem.

let us know how your travlin

I probably would have responded sooner, but I didn't want to until I felt I had a chance to really heal since the changes have been made. But based on what I have seen, I can probably say this:

The changes to mp5 have been pretty nice, because the Illumination nerfs did hit a lot of pallies pretty hard. However, unless there's a gem bonus that I'm going for, I still wouldn't go out of my way to get some of the mp5 gems that you have, especially given the huge boost that mp5 has on gear (I've obtained several pieces of gear that has mp5, and I've built up an mp5 set, although I haven't really used it).

One thing I would recommend are to actively try for certain trinkets that will help your mana usage. Right now I use Eye of the Broodmother - Item - World of Warcraftand Tears of the Vanquished - Item - World of Warcraft and I have fallen in love with that combination. The first comes from 10 man Razorscale in Ulduar, the 2nd comes from the regular 5 man ToC. From what people have figured, the second trinket is worth 50 mp5, give or take a few mp5.

One thing that I also do, and it's not ideal for every fight but can work for some, is meleeing for mana. People don't like seeing pallies do this too often.. however, having Seal of Wisdom up and getting a few hits in on a mob has typically been my fastest way to regen some mana, and as long as you position yourself correctly and are still able to throw out the heals on your target, there's really not much of a reason why you couldn't melee for mana (provided you can position yourself in a good way so that you don't gimp the raid and don't die. Not recommended for all fights.. for instance, Mimiron or the worms in the new raid).

I apologize for logging out in player versus player gear and will go back into my player versus enviroment gear shortly. I was trying out the protection/holy spec in the battle grounds. To get back to my topic, I've put in the following gems.

Dazzling Eye of Zul in my helm and chest.
In my gloves a brilliant autumn's glow and a runed scarlet ruby.
In my bracers a runed scarlet ruby and a runed carnal ruby.

I enchanted mp5 and hp5 on my boots, sapphire spellthread in my legs, spellpower on my gloves and bracers. Helm with the Kiron Tor enchant, Son's of Hodir honored SP and mp5 shoulder enchant.

I do have the tears of the vanquished. I love it. However as to eye of the broodmother, I'm using the OS 25 trinket until that drops. The only problem with that one is I don't have any crit to stand by. After the changes I made to my gear I fell to about twenty percent holy spell crit. That didn't matter as my luck is rather high and I crit very often. Divine illumination I hardly use because of my crits on FoL and tears of the vanquished procs. Recently the lowest my mana pool as fallen to, in terms of the patch 3.2, is 70%.

About overhealing, sadly my guilds druid healer is very trigger happy and prefers to stay on the tank then his assigned raid and off-tank healer. So about fourty percent of my heals are going into overhealing, but that is mostly because of the HoT ticks from SS and FoL.

I do have a question. I normally beacon and shield the tank throwing a FoL on the tank for the temporary hot and heal the raid and off tank. Is this the best way to heal for a paladin, especially in Ulduar and the new ToC raid? Because I tried this method when I normally shielded the tank and beaconed the off tank and was preforming better than my shaman and druid partners.

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Originally Posted by Àmaria

Dazzling Eye of Zul in my helm and chest.
In my gloves a brilliant autumn's glow and a runed scarlet ruby.
In my bracers a runed scarlet ruby and a runed carnal ruby.

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I personally won't comment too much on gems, except to say that your pants need to be gemmed. Gemming, IMO, is a largely personal issue that depends a lot on what you're doing and who you're doing it with.

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I enchanted mp5 and hp5 on my boots, sapphire spellthread in my legs, spellpower on my gloves and bracers. Helm with the Kiron Tor enchant, Son's of Hodir honored SP and mp5 shoulder enchant.

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Personally, I wouldn't go for the mp5 enchants, because to me, they really haven't scaled as well as they could have. On your boots, I'd still get the 12 crit/12 hit rating enchant on them, and I'd switch the enchant on your shoulders for the spellpower/crit enchant. Also, build your rep up with the Sons of Hodir to get the exalted version of the shoulder enchant.

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I do have the tears of the vanquished. I love it. However as to eye of the broodmother, I'm using the OS 25 trinket until that drops. The only problem with that one is I don't have any crit to stand by. After the changes I made to my gear I fell to about twenty percent holy spell crit. That didn't matter as my luck is rather high and I crit very often. Divine illumination I hardly use because of my crits on FoL and tears of the vanquished procs. Recently the lowest my mana pool as fallen to, in terms of the patch 3.2, is 70%.

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Your crit is also naturally lower because you're specced, 54/17/0. Most pallies get their crit up higher when they go into the ret tree as opposed to the prot tree. (Also, why max out Lay on Hands and not Enlightened Judgments? Presumably you are judging more than you are using Lay on Hands....)

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About overhealing, sadly my guilds druid healer is very trigger happy and prefers to stay on the tank then his assigned raid and off-tank healer. So about fourty percent of my heals are going into overhealing, but that is mostly because of the HoT ticks from SS and FoL.

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If the druid decides not to stick to their assigned healing target, not much you can do about your own overheals if you're doing everything else right.

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I do have a question. I normally beacon and shield the tank throwing a FoL on the tank for the temporary hot and heal the raid and off tank. Is this the best way to heal for a paladin, especially in Ulduar and the new ToC raid? Because I tried this method when I normally shielded the tank and beaconed the off tank and was preforming better than my shaman and druid partners.

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If it works for you, then by all means keep it up. Not every pally will have the same group as you, so they won't be able to just say "Yes, that is *the* best method" or "No, that method is horrible!". As long as your primary target is being kept up, and you know why you are specced/geared/enchanted/etc the way you are and can explain it to others adequately, you aren't really failing, you're just healing according to how your group needs you to heal.

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Originally Posted by qygibo

I personally won't comment too much on gems, except to say that your pants need to be gemmed. Gemming, IMO, is a largely personal issue that depends a lot on what you're doing and who you're doing it with.


Personally, I wouldn't go for the mp5 enchants, because to me, they really haven't scaled as well as they could have. On your boots, I'd still get the 12 crit/12 hit rating enchant on them, and I'd switch the enchant on your shoulders for the spellpower/crit enchant. Also, build your rep up with the Sons of Hodir to get the exalted version of the shoulder enchant.

Your crit is also naturally lower because you're specced, 54/17/0. Most pallies get their crit up higher when they go into the ret tree as opposed to the prot tree. (Also, why max out Lay on Hands and not Enlightened Judgments? Presumably you are judging more than you are using Lay on Hands....)


If the druid decides not to stick to their assigned healing target, not much you can do about your own overheals if you're doing everything else right.


If it works for you, then by all means keep it up. Not every pally will have the same group as you, so they won't be able to just say "Yes, that is *the* best method" or "No, that method is horrible!". As long as your primary target is being kept up, and you know why you are specced/geared/enchanted/etc the way you are and can explain it to others adequately, you aren't really failing, you're just healing according to how your group needs you to heal.

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Okay thanks. When I get the chance I'll change around my enchants and specing. I was right to post and say I messed up because you did point out several things I was concerned with. Thank you.

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Originally Posted by Àmaria

Okay thanks. When I get the chance I'll change around my enchants and specing. I was right to post and say I messed up because you did point out several things I was concerned with. Thank you.

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Before you totally change your spec you may want to just go by that with your guild, especially if they might actively rely on your Divine Guardian in order to help mitigate raid damage. I don't personally agree with relying on a holy pally to go into Divine Guardian and gimp themselves as a result, but some guilds see it as something that's required.

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Originally Posted by qygibo

Before you totally change your spec you may want to just go by that with your guild, especially if they might actively rely on your Divine Guardian in order to help mitigate raid damage. I don't personally agree with relying on a holy pally to go into Divine Guardian and gimp themselves as a result, but some guilds see it as something that's required.

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Yeah you have a point there. Sadly we have all paladin tanks so we have no Divine Guardian. I talked to them last night about me changing my spec they told me don't worry about it. I'll have to go back to it again because that spec saved my raid many times. Such as the Ignis and Thorim just to name a few.

There are pally tanks that don't use Divine Guardian? This I have never heard of

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Originally Posted by qygibo

There are pally tanks that don't use Divine Guardian? This I have never heard of

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They have it but they won't use it. They only went into it for the benefits it gave. So it put me in the position to either spec for it myself and actively use it when needed or pray that they will use it when needed. The reasons they say they won't use it is because they don't trust us, as in the healers, enough to heal through it or they have to bubble to not die causing a wipe anyway. Really annoys me when I have to front the skill and pop it when it's needed. However, I did talk to my guild and they told me don't worry about it. I hope I, as the healer, won't regret their decision for our future raids.