Ulduar Thorim

This was the case in the past. However, like Satrina says in the post this is information based on what we knew in TBC before the changes made to crushing blows.

He also say that based on information we knew then, that the loss of 200 defense would push you into the realm of every not avoided or blocked hit would be a crushing blow. This is not what we have observed while completing this encounter. We are being crit but not crushed. So Satrina's "If nothing has changed..." statement is just that. Things have obviously changed. If things were like we knew in the past, we would be seeing crushes and not crits while under this debuff.

In order to see if things are indeed the same we would need to actually work with lower levels, and because it was our unmodified base defense skill in question, and not our modified (rating enhanced skill) that was being used for the old crush calculations, this hypothesis is not easily tested.

Basically, I was wrong when I said it was based solely on level disparity and not skill, however the statement is still correct. The system is based on your base defense skill which your level is the sole factor to determine this. What you need to remember is that even though you may be 540+ defense, because your gear has rating that improves your base skill level, the system only uses your base to determine crushing blows. If it used your enhanced skill level, there would be no reason to worry about them at all.

I as druid have been crushed by thorim's adds (dark rune warbringer) while under the effects of US.

Not sure how that fits into the whole crit vs crush thing but there it is.

Honestly on 10man we didn't even bother alternating tanks. With Thorim on about 50% someone finally bothered reading the US debuff and said something. Tank damage didn't seem to be spiking much so we just kept doing what we were doing till he died.

The problem I have personally found with alternating tanks is if I taunt as soon as tank a gets hit, the healers are still healing him, he has things like earth shield and inspiration etc and even though i do not have the debuff, I am the one hitting my cooldowns not the person actually hit by the strike. Which is not a healer problem because the strike is on a cooldown system that it can land any time after it comes off cooldown so its not something you can switch a healer or two off of early because then the tank eating it will not be topped and killed by it when it does finally happen.

Don't know about 10 man however as I have only done it hard mode in 10, but it seems like you would not have enough external cooldowns (GS, sac, etc) although maybe you wont need them.

Stupid Question maby, but did anyone try to Divine Intervene someone just behind Thorim to start the event quickly next time :P?

Ok, so we finally figured out the balance needed to get through the tunnel/arena and get thorim active, but then end up pretty much hitting the enrage timer.

Things we did that I think caused the issue:

1. we had a resto druid sprint to thorim as the last miniboss was killed. The rest of the group would then follow in about 15 to 30 sec later (depending on speed enchants and blink). This is prolly some of the issue, but we wanted to stop the adds coming as the arena is just about over run at this point.

2. We did have a few more melee than I would have liked, we had 9 melee including OTs. We had the OTs and 2 melee stay out of melee range to keep the CL damage manageable. I think one thing we could do to help is to get 2 groups of clumped melee and treat it like KT?? Does this work well, even with all the boss shifting/tank switches?

I am just trying to understand how we are so far off the DPS requirements of the fight. I mean, he essentially is getting to 16 stack (18 is hard enrage) with about 15 - 17% left. Does anyone have a WWS of a kill so I can see the difference in DPS and see what I need to change? It just seems that either were doing something really wrong or hes tuned just slightly out of our gearing reach (most DPS not in full BIS).

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Originally Posted by Jericho

This was the case in the past. However, like Satrina says in the post this is information based on what we knew in TBC before the changes made to crushing blows.

He also say that based on information we knew then, that the loss of 200 defense would push you into the realm of every not avoided or blocked hit would be a crushing blow. This is not what we have observed while completing this encounter. We are being crit but not crushed. So Satrina's "If nothing has changed..." statement is just that. Things have obviously changed. If things were like we knew in the past, we would be seeing crushes and not crits while under this debuff.

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There is another debuff in WoTLK that reduces defense skill. Amanitar down in Ahn'kahet casts Minidropping defense skill by 500. While under the effects of Mini I have been crushed. In fact first time I did that boss I had no idea how the mushroom worked and ate several crushes and crits. Still no idea how we actually managed to live through that.

So unless 3.1 changed defense and it's relationship with crushes, which I'd have though they'd announce as it is sort of a thing, it's more likely that Thorim simply can't crush.

We had the same issue. When he's around 20% HP the stack get so high that the tanks just get 1 shotted, even though our DPS is good for XT002 prenerf.
I'm thinking it might be we need to MC more Warbringers.

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Originally Posted by Nexty

So unless 3.1 changed defense and it's relationship with crushes, which I'd have though they'd announce as it is sort of a thing, it's more likely that Thorim simply can't crush.

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This. The only change to crushing blows is that a boss's attack skill needs to beat your base defense skill by 20 instead of 15 (this usually means they need to be 4 levels above you instead of 3).

Easy way to test this: Log onto a sub-80 character, go fight something that's 4 levels higher than you. You'll eat crushes.

We attempted this boss tonight on 10 man. Raid build was as follows

Tank;
2 X Paladins (1 slightly better geared than other)
DPS;
DK
Warlock
Ret Paladin
Enhance Shaman
Hunter
Healers;
Holy Priest
Resto Druid
Resto Shaman

We struggled in the arena in Phase 2, DPS seemed to die due to healers dyeing. It improved when DPs protected the healers.

Arena, Pala Tank, Warlock, Hunter, Ret Pala, Holy Priest, Resto Shaman.

Rest of the raid did the corridor. This group had no problem with the gauntlet and hit hard mode timer (maybe too efficient)

Is there any advice for survivability or tactic on handling the trash in Phase 2 for the arena? Maybe a different config? (we can also provide DK Tank, additional ret pala, another anhance or resto shaman, die to alts and dual spec)

Many thanks

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Originally Posted by Ray

Ok, so we finally figured out the balance needed to get through the tunnel/arena and get thorim active, but then end up pretty much hitting the enrage timer.)

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Originally Posted by Ray

I am just trying to understand how we are so far off the DPS requirements of the fight. I mean, he essentially is getting to 16 stack (18 is hard enrage) with about 15 - 17% left. Does anyone have a WWS of a kill so I can see the difference in DPS and see what I need to change? It just seems that either were doing something really wrong or hes tuned just slightly out of our gearing reach (most DPS not in full BIS).

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This was also our case last night. Our DPS could not get him down fast enough before the "soft" enrage. Can someone post a 25-man kill from their WWS or any report for comparison? Need some clarification on what the dps requirements are for Thorim. We're definetly missing something.

Thanks.

Same with our group, 15-25% left before he was one-shotting all of the tanks. We chocked it up to people dying during the pre-boss phases and using heroism before we engage the boss (hero'd to get past the overwhelming pit adds)

We're having a similiar problem with us dying around 15-18%, but personally I think it's because we have too many melee and chain lightning owns them even when they stack up like KT. Does anyone have a recommended number of melee to actually have on the boss at the end?

We had some issues with people dying in the arena at first, but we changed our kill order somewhat and the arena isn't a huge problem anymore. It's just basically as soon as we engage Thorim, a few melee tend to drop dead due to chain lightning. Should the tanks be moving to avoid the lightning charged orbs as well? We told them to with us, but that would often lead with the melee trying to reposition and during that, a bad chain lightning would hit like 6+ and kill the last 2-3 of the group. It's frustrating. :(

Any tips would be appreciated.

Edit: 25man Thorim, I mean.

Hello,

I juste wanted to know which programme do you use to film in high quality? :D

What kill order do people use in arena that seem to work out the best and result in the least amount of trouble?

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Originally Posted by Avandar

What kill order do people use in arena that seem to work out the best and result in the least amount of trouble?

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we kill evokers first then champions.

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Originally Posted by Avandar

What kill order do people use in arena that seem to work out the best and result in the least amount of trouble?

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champions then warbringers ignore evokers they die to aoe

In 25 man, go after champions first.

What UI and additional add ons are you using? I like the simplicity of it and it looks very functional.

just a hint if you can afford it, get a rogue in your raid preferably with skilled FoK, put him in arena,and voila- your problems with DPS /healers dying just ended.