I'm thinking of something a bit more like this:
I'm happy with the threat talents I have (which also, happily, double as dps talents when I don't need to tank), I have a couple survivability cooldowns to save myself with (I love me some rune tap) and don't have to worry too much about lobbing out icy touch as much anymore, which opens up room in my rotation for obliterate instead...which seems to be the actual intent of some of those talents (Rime in particular).
Of course, that means that my sigil is kind of worthless now that I've all but removed icy touch from the rotation (at least past the initial pull to build up RP).
apparently i'm too revved up to go home and make my tank and dps frost specs, but a few thoughts for tank spec...
lichbourne - was a defensive skill, now is basically a pvp skill, plus still has the bonus of being able to death coil yourself as a heal. Since I'm playing an undead dk, i have one fear breaker already (will of the forsaken), so it is possible that I do away with this one, but for others that aren't undead, wasting a trinket spot on a pvp fear/cc breaker seems like a bad choice. Definitely a PVP/dps keeper though.
Endless Winter - sort of surprised this hasn't ended up in here on a tank spec to some degree. Makes Mind Freeze free, which is always good in case you are out of runic power and need to silence someone. Course never works on bosses, and has to be in melee range, Chains of Ice causing Frost Fever gets a meh from me though. Maybe I've just talked myself out of considering this.
So maybe this is my tank build now:
Take points from acclimation and DnD and move as you see fit.
I guess as far as acclimation goes, we are tanking, anything that reduces damage is worthwhile right? If we are going to get a dual specs and be able to spec a pure tank and then a second spec to do whatever (dps/pvp/offspec), then grab all we can at mitigating damage.
I'm just curious if anyone else thinks that Improved Frost Presence is a waste of 2 talent points? The way I see it, with duels specs being available, the only benefit from those 2 points is 2% damage reduction. Is it really worth 2 talent points to save, for example, a priest one greater heal over a fight where you would be taking 1 million points of damage before mitigation? I don't plan to be in another presence when I'm tanking so that 2% seems like it's just not that special.
imp frost pres: would say its worth holding onto, you're going to be avoiding less and mitigating more in 3.1 so it would be a good idea to grab it as an additional dam reduction
morbid: i agree that DnD is great and always used on pulls and such, but something that might be being overlooked is just how often it is used, i think most DKs would agree that they would use DnD at the beginning of almost every trash pull
but for frost tanks especially apart from the initial pull its not used throughout the fight, the rune use isnt practical when you're throwing out HB / BB all over the place.
i think morbidity falls into the same catagory as hungering cold in which it's one of those things that looks really good but in practical situations you would use it very very rarely
personally ive never come across a situation when i had to use DnD within 15 seconds of each other, theres plenty of ways to get threat and aggro just as quick being frost.
lichborne: few people are saying that it would be a good idea to keep a hold of this due to situations when there are fears or w/e going around. it really isnt neccecary, if there is a boss where the tank needs to be fear immune that's where your warrior tank would come in. not to mention ward / totem etc
this i think seems to be the most practical ( subversion as much for the blood strike crit, (since it'l be packing quite a kick now ) as the ob crit )
I'm thinking about going with this build today, when the servers are back up. Please let me know what you think.
Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft
Hey, I will use this build Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft
but i dont't know where spend the 3 point.
What do you think? i think subversion can run fine.
I'm gonna make this type of a build for aoe leveling and some heroic tanking:
Just pointing out ahead of time, you'd be better off going down to howling blast than relying on unholy blight for aoe threat. You'll find that your dps will pull mobs off you in a heartbeat once you get to heroic group pulls.
Originally Posted by Retadin
Yes its worth it and should be in all frost builds. The talent is budgeted perfectly. It gives the same damage reduction point for point that BB does now without having to proc it.
Originally Posted by Coldharted
Frost 25M MT Boss Build
This is the build that I have come up specifically to MT most bosses in Ulduar. I have an Unholy build for trash as I am the only AoE tank and Unholy can pump out more consistent TPS in AoE than frost. The build itself has a few "flavor" points that you can place however you see fit. I will most likely place them in BA to fill that out.
A few key points about frost builds:
1. OB is your main filler spell (and may be the main attack with Ulduar weapons)
2. Point for Point, 2H spel is better than BA. This is due to the fact that OB, RS, and FS will comprise most of your TPS.
3. 4/5 KM is plenty
4. Points in Runic Mastery are not really all that needed from a tanking point of view. If you are used to running with BoSanc your in for a rude awakening with RP starvation. If you have been running with out it, you understand what im saying. Also, FS is a very good ability that it should be used whenever you get over 60 RP.
What I would be interested in know is if keeping PS up is worth it. With the glyphed HB, is it even worth using the new PS? I can see the rotation looking something like this:
HB OB BS BS FS.... OB HB OB FS
What suggestions would you guys give to this build
this build is not meant for AoE at all, but pure single target TPS (thus the exclusion of Howling Blast)
if your looking to armory me, I'm on Khadgar as Mardoran.
I dont currently have the time to RAID Uldar or Naxx really, so i run the "zergs" like VoA and OS as the main tank every week.
My off spec is going to be an Unholy Tanking build for trash because i run alot of heroics and for bosses that need the AoE threat.
i'm still working on a AoE build.
but so far
Frost Single Target Main Tank
Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft
I'd like to first say thanks to all the posters that have been submitting ideas and providing helpful criticism on proposed talent tree suggestions. I've definitely had a great chance to better evaluate my own tree and think about why I spend my points the way I do.
So from the way I've always MT'd and OT'd thus far, through Naxx25, I've always been the kinda Frost Tank to:
DnD -> IT -> PS -> Pest -> Deathchill -> HB ... then fill in melee strikes until I could HB again (and maintaining diseases).
With the changes to the trees, especially our frost tree, we're now forced to take our tree to the max, which I don't really mind. Making HB the 51 talent makes perfect sense, considering how important it is for us. With that said, here are a few considerations and questions I've come up with:
1) I understand that DnD isn't used frequently by other tanks, and perhaps I use it too often. I've always invested Morbidity for the CD decrease, but maybe its time to invest in something else. The runes used could be for something else.
2) I've never even considered Hungering Cold until the patch. Would it make more sense to let HC spread Frost Fever, as opposed to letting HB do it through a glyph? After all, if HC drops the Fever, an immediate HB would benefit from the added damage bonus. If HB drops the Fever, does it actually Fever first, then damage (with the bonus)?
3) Deathchill was something I would have bet my life on before the patch, but I'm starting to have second thoughts. On a side note, I've never taken Killing Machine in any spec before. With my decision to only invest 3/3 Improved IT, I have some extra points. Here's the thing though, if KM procs a crit for IT/HB/FS, isn't that almost the same thing as Deathchill? Would we need both? Deathchill has a 2min CD, KM procs several times a minute. Would the two combined be a waste?
4) If you take KM (and/or Deathchill) and Hungering Cold (and its glyph instead of the HB glyph), wouldn't that be a perfect setup for some devastating AoE? If HC, HB, and KM (and/or Deathchill) were used, would that mean faster/frequent AoE destruction?
... KM -> HC -> HB ... ?
... Deathchill -> HC -> HB ...?
5) I've also seen a split decision on Acclimation. A Frost Tank either thinks it works, or they don't. Personally, I'm one that thinks its important. I almost feel its a unique-role facet for us. Beefing our natural resist would seem to make sense considering we're always looking for that extra edge to make up for no shield/block.
6) Is Merciless really worth the two points in any situation? Does the additional damage bonus really make that big a difference, when you have to wait for the target(s) to be < 35% health? The spike in damage doesn't seem to justify itself. If you're at 35%, you probably have all the threat you need, would that damage be unnecessary icing on the cake? If you're a tank, your damage (i.e. threat building) is essential, but would you be carrying the fight to warrant the damage bonus? I hope not.
Thus far in my Frost Tank career, I very seldomly have a situation where my threat is questioned, unless its by another tank on a flat our dps race boss (I know a great pally tank that could snuff me).
The new trees seem to make sense and I think there's a lot of great winning combinations. With that being said, here's the latest spec I plan on attempting tonight. I took two points from Morbidity and filled in:
1/1 Deathchill - I know and like Deathchill a lot, combined with HC, it almost feels like overkill.
1/1 Rune Tap - I very rarely get nervous about heals, but an extra "pot" in a sticky situation never hurt anyone. (Perhaps this could be better spent in something else?)
http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?deathknight=0055001000000000000000000000305050003 5203310030125131351005000000000000000000000000000& glyph=151324050406&version=9767
on the note of Deathchill
I used to be a Killing Machine Howling Blast tank.
and i found that often whenever i would goto hit Deathchill Killing Machine had already proc'd and at that point i would have hold off using it, and i didn't want to waste it on an Icy Touch cause the crits are never nearly as massive.
The one time i consistantly used DeathChill was if i was tanking multiple high HP targets. (Think the big trash guys that come in pairs in OS) i would taunt them off the offtank and then use Deathchill and if i had the runic power a frost strike for a big crit to help build the aggro off the OT.
I'm sure that i could easily get away without it though.
I was wondering if everyone in here could take a look at this spec for me and provide some feedback. Let me first say that I want to include Icy Talons/Imp Icy Talons if possible as I don't regularly raid with a Shaman, however, if what I give up is too much, I might consider changing.
Here is the build I've made.
Originally Posted by jimbo831
Jim, this is more of the spec that I have been looking at, because even if I have a Shaman in the group it is usually the casters that are getting their choice of totems. The only thing I would question is how you can skip Blood of the North. I think it would be more beneficial to drop Scent of blood and Acclimation for 5/5 in BotN and one to float like Runic Power Mastery or Two-Handed Specialization. Just my opinion but 15% to frost strike is huge, I admittedly dislike Acclimation and I think 2/2 in Chill of the Grave will keep you in good amounts of RP. Interested to hear what others have to say about Imp. Icy Talons build.
I don't want to hijack this thread or anything, but if you read the thread I started here you will see why I went this direction.
Originally Posted by Coldharted
This is not set in stone and that is one thing I am still very torn on. I know the 15% in frost strike is huge and the loss of death runes really hurts to as blood strike doesn't do much damage, as well as 2 blood strikes take more cooldowns than one oblit when they are death runes. However, I still can't figure out what to get rid of to get blood of the north back since I need 5 points. The spec I have here was designed specifically to get icy talons and acclimation. Acclimation seems like a situational talent, but in looking over the fights in Ulduar, a ton of them seem to be dealing with magic damage, not to mention trying 2/3 drake sarth.
Personally, I see Scent of Blood as absolutely necessary and if I drop a RP gen talent, it would be Chill of the Grave. The problem is that the tooltip on scent of blood is wrong, and it's way more powerful than that. I did some testing on packs of mobs in Northrend today and found that it does in fact proc more often than every 10 seconds, despite what it says. Also, each strike generates 10 RP, not 5 as stated. When I was tanking these packs, it was almost always up and I was generating probably about 30 RP per 10 seconds with it. During that time, Chill of the Grave would probably net me about 15, which is obviously half. My problem is whether or not blizz will fix the tooltip or the mechanic. Apparently some last minute patch notes said it wouldn't have the cooldown, but the tooltip still does, so who knows what's right.
I am however still very torn on Blood of the North. I am thinking about trying this build and seeing how my threat is. If it's too low single target, I may have to get it back. Has anyone else tried a build without blood of the north?
This is what I ended up speccing.
Tank spec: Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft
I have been running Heroics with this and it works great. Chill of the Grave plus Glyph of Frost Strike gives me all the RP I need, and Blood of the North lets me keep a steady rotation of Howling Blast, Blood Boil and Obliterate. I haven't found a need to have Death and Decay on a lower cool down. The Acclimation procs often against any magical attacks and has proven invaluable in survivability.
DPS spec: Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft
Took this for my dual-spec. It's a dual-wield spec with a perma ghoul. Seems great so far, but I don't have the dps gear yet to really compare with other dpsers.
Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft
How about this one for aoeing?;P Rune Tap for hp, a little avoidance/hp from both UH and Blood.
EDIT: leaving out one ''CD'' So that I might get a little more better for tanking. Here 's the new build I'm looking into.
Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft
Make comments please, I'd like to know the opinion from the pro's :)
This is kinda what I'm looking at for my more survival based spec for dual speccing
to contrast that here is my threat based spec that will mostly be my mian spec.