Well, there's been some changes in 3.1, Steewe. I guess Blizzard thought it was unbalanced that Frost would have two tanking CDs, and Lichborne no longer increases chance to be missed - keeps the immune and breakage of some debuffs, but it no longer helps us avoid damage.
And, from my expierence as a Frost Tank, I usually have just enough Runic Power to keep my RP skills up and running; that Chill of the Grave is going to generate more then enough Runic Power for me.
I guarantee Lichborne was changed as a PvP balance, not as a tanking CD. Really as a tanking CD it's lackluster. Miss isn't much help to our mechanics, so it was a nice life saver for 15 sec but on a very long 3 min CD. I won't miss it, I never really used it, heh.
Meh, I find it nice on Patchwerk, where I had tanking buff for the first 2 minutes almost constantly.
http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?deathknight=0055000000000000000000000000305050003 4203300230025131351005020000000000000000000000000& glyph=241417040605&version=9757
This build has no points wasted on talents with CDs, except for Unbreakable Armor, a must for tanking. Only 2 points in Morbidity, but I can't pass up Acclimation, and it's not worth taking unless maxxed. Between Chill of the Grave and Glyph of Icy Touch, it has plenty of RP generation.
The only 2 points I can see moving would possibly be Merciless Combat, but they could only be moved to talents before it in the Frost tree.
I still don't see why many frost tanks bother putting points in Morbitity. Really. DnD is practically worthless for a frost build, HB+BB is going to net you more threat for the same amount of runes, and allow you to put those 3 points into something useful. Pick up Virulence only if you're low on spell hit, otherwise you should drop it and plow those points back into the frost tree.
No nonsense, all purpose 2H frost tank build. Heroics, 10-mans, 25's, whatever. Good for main tanking, great for offtanking, superior for aoe tanking. Sure, you could float the point in Hungering Cold to something else, and swap out the 3rd major glyph for, say, Disease. Or Rune Strike, or Frost Strike, or Obliterate. Pick your favorite, the first two are the real essentials. I LIKE Hungering Cold, it's great for grabbing unfortunate patrols, interrupting casts, and stopping (or at least delaying) your casters from getting squished. Pick up gear with solid defense, gem for hit rating and strength. Don't feel like or can't affodr dual-speccing? Get some dps gear, switch to blood presence, and this build puts out respectable damage when not tanking (more than a prot warrior or paladin, to be sure).
Now get out there and tank.
to Bryenne ...
i will only speak for myself. tho others my think along the same lines. ... i use DnD on most group pulls, and like to have it up when possible. Now i have some trouble thinking outside the box on occasions so i'm glad you suggested an alternate strat for not using DnD. i will have to try the HB+BB especially now that HB infects targets with frost fever ... going back to rebuild!!
I only like having DnD on CD for patrolls, while my HB is on Cooldown. Rather then wait 8 seconds before I'll be able to agro them, I'll toss a DnD on them, which, hopefully, should be off the CD from when I pulled the inital group.
As for Hungering Cold, I run with a group that love to AoE, so Hungering cold would break almost the instant I cast it. As well, I'd breake it with my own AoE, so it kinda loses it's appeal. Maybe, in Ulduar, I'll pick it up, depending on how the instance goes.
Mallvat: I would say pick either Morbidity or Unholy Command, but not both.
For anyone going for a high Runic generation build, I'm going to say Runic Matery is going to be a must, to make sure you can hold all that extra RP you will be generating (and, when Rime procs).
This is probably the build I'll be MTing, which should prep me for the unknown.
I have a similar approach to dnd to VerticalEvent + the high threat dps in my guild rush in before dnd's ticks have generated enough threat to keep creeps on me while my runes refresh.
This is the closest to my current build i've been comfortably able to get.
However, depending on what the dk dps spec into i might be able to drop improved icy talons. If that's the case then here's my build
Shame about lichborne, however increased disease duration being standard means spare 2 points from my perspective, i still call unfair trade though.
Any questions? suggestions?
I've seen some of the builds but I don't like them. I've used something similar to pre-3.1 and liked it a lot.
Frost tank = spell damage tank. The points you have in Lichborne, Deathchill, and 2H Weapon Spec are much, much better spent in Bladed Armor, since spell damage scales off attack power. Feel free to pull a point from Killing Machine to top it off.
Originally Posted by loveknife
Im thinking about going this build, if anyone finds anything that can be changed just let me know..
Not sure how many you checked loveknife and i too was gonna stick with lichborne but the trick is in the fineprint. they removed the avoidance bonus and limited it to just immune to charm sleep fear, useful to some extent but the question is how useful and for how many fights.
Agreed about bladed armor Bryenne, ap bonus is great for balanced threat rotation and i dont wait for hb cooldown, ill oblit inbetween (hence ap reference).
Also although hb is great for threat burst, i have been questioning its hit/crit/miss vs oblit and found im not the only person doing so.
Google it and you'll see some interesting results...
Nope, nothing severely wrong with that for a MT build. If you raid with several melee, and don't have another frost dk in the group or an enhance shammy, the 20% haste buff will certainly be missed. Also, taking one point from killing machine and the point from deathchill, and putting those 2 into chill of the grave will help you maintain a fuller runic power bar, but that's if you like throwing FS into your tanking rotation.
Glyph of Dark Command? I've never had it fail, and you shouldn't either, if your hit rating is up to snuff. You will get better mileage from a different glyph.
Acclimation is a great buff and imo will be very useful in ulduar on bosses such as hodir where frost resist gear is recommended for when he does his frost rage thingy, i'd suggest removing maybe 1 point from morbidity and throwing it in up there (10% extra chance to proc is definately worth the one point). As far as the rest of the layout goes, it looks good ^_^ you may find yourself starved of runic power depending on your play style so if thats the case you may wanna check how often rime procs free hb and/or killing machine and trade points in one of those for Chill of the Grave.
GL in 3.1
Googled it and didn't see any interesting results. Oblit is a physical attack, which needs both expertise and hit rating. Howling Blast is a spell attack, needing only hit rating, which equally helps IT, Pestilence, and Blood Boil. If you want real numbers on single vs multi target hit/crit/miss, make sure you are expertise and hit rating (spell) soft capped, and go beat up on the training dummies, going for a few minutes using only obliterate, and for a few using only howling blast.
Originally Posted by Tankkin
My main reason for bringing oblit into the conversation was more in relation to bladed armor and 2h weapon damage talents and their effect on making a less rollercoaster threat per second through their ap increases and ap's effect on most of our abilities. Which was the main reason for my "looking into" the difference between the 2.
There are some interesting debates going on and hopefully more with changes in 3.1 to set bonuses, talents, glyphs etc. I'm not saying one is better than the other for the record.
HB vs Oblit debate can go elsewhere :P
and if u'd like i can link you to a couple of the discussions i have found while trolling.
basis of these convos is around talent and set bonus inc's to oblit's crit and crit bonus vs hb with killing machine procs, crit bonus etc
Here's my current thought for a frost tank DK:
1 point left to put into either Runic Mastery (15 extra runic power), Rune Tap (but you shouldn't need to heal yourself eh), or two hand spec for more damage, or pull a point out of DnD and drop two into Unholy Command (quicker deathgrip) or Ravenous Dead (for +str bonus).
It'll be interesting in my mind to see the difference with Howling Blast being glyphed to spread frost fever and the fact that it's damage is no longer being buffed by frost fever to see this as an opener now, versus what I tend to do now with a group of mobs which is drop DnD, icy touch, plague strike, pestilence, blood strike , blood strike, wait for howling blast to come up (which should be better now on an 8 second timer too).
If this ends up being the case, I may do without the 3 points in DnD, as is, 2 would probably suffice, since it's an opener, it's rare that I it's not ready to go for the next pull already.
And for the frosties out there, I will submit this as a frost dps/pvp spec:
Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft
Originally Posted by Frankenkrist
So far yours is closest to what I think I would go with, with Acclimation being the big point of discussion. I had frost aura in 3.xx, but my build was also frost tank with some pve utilization and now we get to totally separate that out.