Safeguard+Intervene

I don't understand why people are so quick to write this ability off.

I do understand that at first glance it seems a little weak, but on fights like 3d sarth (And hopefully harder ulduar encounters) you can work in damage reduction if you are an off tank in a rotation with it.

Example.

Sarth Breath #1, Intervene MT -30% damage taken
Sarth Breath #2, Guardian Spirit
Sarth Breath #3, Shield Wall
Sarth Breath #4, Hand of Sacrifice
Sarth Breath #5 Re-Intervene will be up again by now (30 sec CD) and can redo that.

Just a modification from the 15/5/51 build to 15/3/52 and dropping 2 points from cruelty you could pick it up.

I mean I'm not too clever when it comes to min/maxing abilities but this seems pretty nice (Esp if you had 2 warrior off tanks that could rotate it with healers)

It does reduce overall threat by 10%, but we've never had our warrior tank have threat issues at all with ToT/MD's going up every CD. (And I don't even think we need to do that, not to mention on a fight like sarth3d 10% overall threat would be very trivial to the sarth tank at that point)


I also don't hear people talk too much about Intervene and the threat mechanic. Every spec of warrior gets it, so why not have your fury warriors Intervening each other, or your other High TPS DPS along with HoSacrifice and it's a pretty nice tool.

That's all =)

Sarth Breath #1, Intervene MT -30% damage taken, offtank dies from taking the full flame breath
Sarth Breath #2, Guardian Spirit
Sarth Breath #3, Shield Wall
Sarth Breath #4, Hand of Sacrifice

Better be ready with that combat ress.

Safeguard could possibly be interesting in Ulduar, but I wouldn't hold my breath.

Unless of course someone casts a bubble on the intervening warrior, say if you had two Paladins (since you can't cast it again onto the MT until the debuff ends).

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Originally Posted by Isegrim

Sarth Breath #4, Hand of Sacrifice

Better be ready with that combat ress.

Safeguard could possibly be interesting in Ulduar, but I wouldn't hold my breath.

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When a paladin casts that on the tank they also pop their bubble fyi....so no one dies.

And I'm sure that your off tank can sustain one melee hit from sarth at that level, (Intervene Eats the Melee not the Breath, Safeguard just mitigates the breath for 30% damage reduction.

Interesting to contemplate using the talent in such a way. Very interesting. I'll think it over as I'm raiding, see if I find situations very often where I would find it useful. On my first thoughts however, I'm thinking it would be nice to give a OT who's not tanking (ie: dpsing) some utility, but then I think that with dual spec, I'll have MUCH more utility as fury. So maybe on fights where there are transitions, or where once mobs are dead, the tank is free'd up, then it would be decent. Like on Sarth3D when Drakes are dead, the Warrior drake tank can Intervene the Sarth tank at key moments to reduce his damage by 30% and take a melee.

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Originally Posted by OfficeMax

When a paladin casts that on the tank they also pop their bubble fyi....so no one dies.

And I'm sure that your off tank can sustain one melee hit from sarth at that level, (Intervene Eats the Melee not the Breath, Safeguard just mitigates the breath for 30% damage reduction.

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The combat res remark is to the warrior who dies on the first intervene fyi... since he does die if he eats the breath since it's a cone. Yes, safeguard lasts 6 seconds but with how random the breaths are, odds are he wouldn't mitigate the breath unless he died doing it, or Sartharion decides to cast the next breath really soon. It's very hit or miss if it would work or not and, to me, not worth risking a wipe to when other cooldowns are way more reliable than 6 seconds

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Originally Posted by Durando

Unless of course someone casts a bubble on the intervening warrior, say if you had two Paladins (since you can't cast it again onto the MT until the debuff ends).

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And this wouldn't work. Hand of Protection protects from melee damage, not magic. Breath = Fire. The melee hit shouldn't kill the intervening warrior and you *never* cast that bubble on the MT

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Originally Posted by Aethraen

The combat res remark is to the warrior who dies on the first intervene fyi... since he does die if he eats the breath since it's a cone. Yes, safeguard lasts 6 seconds but with how random the breaths are, odds are he wouldn't mitigate the breath unless he died doing it, or Sartharion decides to cast the next breath really soon. It's very hit or miss if it would work or not and, to me, not worth risking a wipe to when other cooldowns are way more reliable than 6 seconds

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To say that this is very hit or miss is incorrect and inaccurate. I also play a Holy Priest and when I see the breaths coming my Guardian Spirit is not "Hit or Miss". With the practice skilled players can get it down to an art. Also I understand the bres comment as the warrior would *probably* get hit by the breath still (The intervening one) but tbh, if these are your last resorts...you use them and not to mention once again in the hands of a skilled player you can intervene, recharge back to an add and still miss the breath completely and survive (Off tank that is).

Just because the concept seems difficult to execute doesn't mean it's not worth the practice to possibly implement a fantastic new tool.

To the guy talking about fury warriors, don't forget you can intervene your top DPS to reduce their overall threat by 10% every 30 seconds.

More thoughts please!

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Originally Posted by OfficeMax

To say that this is very hit or miss is incorrect and inaccurate. I also play a Holy Priest and when I see the breaths coming my Guardian Spirit is not "Hit or Miss". With the practice skilled players can get it down to an art. Also I understand the bres comment as the warrior would *probably* get hit by the breath still (The intervening one) but tbh, if these are your last resorts...you use them and not to mention once again in the hands of a skilled player you can intervene, recharge back to an add and still miss the breath completely and survive (Off tank that is).

Just because the concept seems difficult to execute doesn't mean it's not worth the practice to possibly implement a fantastic new tool.

More thoughts please!

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Guardian Spirit can be applied during the cast and stands zero risk of killing anyone, so I fail to see how your comparison to that even applies.
And think about it. 8-40 seconds between each breath, you have a 6 second window of success with Safeguard with a chance the intervening warrior will die vs. 10 seconds with Guardian Spirit plus 0 chance someone else will die. Intervene is *very* hit or miss, Guardian Spirit is not.

Yes, I realize Sartharion will cast the vast majority of his breathes within 15 seconds of eachother nor did I ever say it wasn't impossible for a "skilled player" as you put it to Intervene in and charge back out. In all honesty I don't see this as an option in 10-man since the Drake tank would never do this, and if it was the add tank he'd most likely be busy. With how many other cooldowns there are available in 25-man it makes me wonder just how last resort this would really be.

It's a good idea in concept, not so much in execution. It would be a massive headache.

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Originally Posted by Aethraen

It's a good idea in concept, not so much in execution. It would be a massive headache.

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I fail to see how this is a massive headache. We'll try it this week in our 3d and get back to you the results.

Also, just because an ability can be tough to pull off, doesn't make it bad or lackluster. I'm kind of looking for a different kind of feedback at this point. I know that you don't care for it because it's a headache for you to do. Others might see opportunity where some do not.

Keep idea's and feedback about practical uses and why ELSE you would/would not use it please!

Thanks to Aethraen for his feedbak so far =)

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Originally Posted by OfficeMax

I don't understand why people are so quick to write this ability off.

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Agree. I've been poking around Safeguard for several weeks now and, while it is not necessarily "needed", it can help.

Some uses I've found for it is to Intervene:

1. MT on Anub'rekan towards the end of Locust Swarm (We don't kite)
2. MT on Grand Widow periodically throughout Enrage (Sort of helped on the achievement I think. Though Heroism + ignoring the two Followers probably did most of it. Those charges can be annoying though)
3. MT on Maexxna just before a Web Spray 'just in case'
4. Usually DPS on Loatheb, but if I seem him get low for some reason I'll use it on the tank
5. I'm normally in the back for 4 Horsemen, so I use it on the 'tank' for the other one back there on transitions
6. MT on Sapphiron after air phases
7. Guardian tanks on KT are usually good targets.

I don't dare use it on Malygos simply because threat can become an issue there. I've never thought to use it on the Sartharion tank... I felt it would be taking a huge risk.

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Originally Posted by Aethraen

Intervene is *very* hit or miss, Guardian Spirit is not. (...snip...) It would be a massive headache.

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I do agree with the hit or miss bit, on the basis that 6 seconds isn't very long and would take much better coordination than Guardian Spirit. It's a fine line. Taking into account his "random" breaths and throwing latency in I can understand how it could become a headache. Although if the warrior was snappy with his own cooldowns if they knew they'd get hit by the breath too they have Shield Wall which I would think would make one at least survivable, and Last Stand may as well (A 'last stand' effect trinket coupled with it would help too)

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Originally Posted by OfficeMax

We'll try it this week in our 3d and get back to you the results.

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I look forward to these results, if it goes well I might consider trying it if I know we're a little shorter on cooldowns