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Yes, in 40-man patch I believe you could not pull aggro as OT, but in wrath Naxx the aggro mechanics on Patch are "normal." I think you're just expanding on what I was saying, and I agree with your assessment.Quote:
Originally Posted by Molohk
As far as melee eating hatefuls, I've seen it happen, although I haven't spent a lot of time in 10-man lately so perhaps they adjusted this with 3.0.8 ?
Agreed 100%.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Optimoos
I ment to say that I've never seen a melee eating a hateful in 10man, but I've seen it a few times in 25man. I was guessing the mechanics could be different in both versions, to make sure you didnt need a second OT in the 10 man version.Quote:
Originally Posted by Optimoos
I just checked wowwiki, and hateful strikes do have different descriptions for both versions:
10 man: "Patchwerk will use this ability at a 1 second frequency on the target in melee range with the second highest threat..."
20 man: "Patchwerk will use this ability at a 1 second frequency on the target in melee range with the highest HP who is also one of the top three on Patchwerk's aggro list..."
Anyways, the OP already stated threat is not an issue, so I apologize for the hijack.
i must have said something farther back in this thread about melee dieing, when they did die it was because the MT died then i became the next target while the melee were smashed
as far as buffs go i dont think the mage knows he has amp magic, and vigi is always up
would it also matter that both heals are priests?
IMO priests are very good patchwerk healers (even better if they're disc). As long as they keep PoM bouncing and spamming heals like crazy.
I ran Patchwerk with a pug healer once. First 3 attempts the OT went splat. 4th attempt we died to the soft enrage. 5th attempt we got him.
The first 3 attempts didn't last more than 30 seconds because the pug healer kept healing the melee (they were jumping in the slime and all that). We kept telling him to stop, and he still healed them.
The other problem (caused by the priest raid healing) was that the other healer wasn't sticking with one tank and tried to heal both tanks.
That did work when the priest finally got it into his skull to only heal the MT (me), then the druid could toss a hot on me every now and then and focus on the OT. So, it could be a healing assignment issue as much as a gear issue.
Funny enough, one of those 3 attempts *all* the melee died to hatefuls except me. Both healers had no trouble keeping me up at that point :rolleyes: (although we wiped it when we realized we weren't gonna beat the enrage timer). At that point we knew it wasn't a gear issue and just kept reminding the pug healer to stick with his assignment.
Oh yes, agree with the healer comments: this fight is all about the healers, not the tanks. Go to healspot.com and you'll find healers endlessly talking about the trouble they have with this fight - really! As long as you're respectably geared (which you are) and you know how to use your defensive abilities (I'm sure you do), you're entirely at the mercy of your healers. They have to be on the ball from the very first .1 second of the fight, and they have to stay on the ball until he's dead.
We still occassionaly wipe on 25 man because the healers are not paying attention when we start the fight.
The healers may also be confusing MT with OT. Normally, the MT is taking most of the damage, but on Patchwerk that's reversed. I'ld point that out, and have the healers refocus. Ideally, you want the best healer focusing entirely on you and chain casting.
Alternately, you cheat, pull all the other melee out and just let the OT solo tank it. Lame but works last I heard.
If there is no second target, he will throw hatefuls to the MT.Quote:
Originally Posted by Esch
@Smoke: silly question, but do each of your healers have a tank assigned? or are they just both healing whoever needs it? Like Esch said, you want your best healer assigned to the OT, and the other healer assigned to the MT. They should only cross-heal if they feel comfortable keeping their assigned tank alive.
They are both assigned a tank,Quote:
Originally Posted by Molohk
going over the fights in my head i dont think ive ever been hit with a renew, prayer of mending or a sheild
Sorry to be blunt, but...Quote:
Originally Posted by SmokeJaguar
fail healers are fail
As was said probably a healing issue. Tell your healer/healers to not cancel their heals and just and see what happens, early on we had tanks dieing because healers would get lax after a string of dodges. If you survive fine now but they go oom bring in a shadow priest/melee druid for innervate etc untill you get the fight down better.
Also if your just starting the encounter you will be up against the enrage timer so shield wall as you go in to give the healers time to get hots rolling etc and stabalise healing before the full damage comes in. Shield wall will be available again in 5min before he gets to the soft enrage at 5%.
I'm inclined to agree :P PoM is huge, since it's instant and it bounces really fast between the two tanks, if they're not casting it they fail. If both priests are holy (this may be the case, since you mention there are no shields) make one respec disc. Make sure both priests are keeping stacked Grace up 100% of the time.Quote:
Originally Posted by Optimoos
Try to record a wws next time you go there, and mabe we can provide more specific info.
Signed.Quote:
Originally Posted by Optimoos
PoM is a massive chunk of easy heals for a priest, as is renew (I think I saw one ticking for 1.3k from an unknown level priest?). Then there's bubble and spamming greater heals. Not very mana friendyl, but with a ret paladin/shadow priest/hunter in the raid they will be getting mana back, then theres shadow fiend and pots.
There should be no excuse for your healer to not be healing you and only you, constantly.
thanks for the posts ill look into getting a WWS up next time
and yes both priests are holy
Above all, bring in a third healer. That fixes the issue most of the time. Then it's up to your DPS to do their job
Just some clarifications:
Hatefuls only hit the second on the aggro list in 10 man (2 and 3 in 25 taking the highest health of the 2), the hateful is threat based. The hateful strike also increases the threat of the OT (think of it as a failsafe for really bad tanks, this is also why you hear wait for the first hateful melee and why you are close to overaggroing the main tank).
1. Best geared healer and tank on hatefuls, The healer needs to be able to spam heal for 3-4 minutes and most likely big heals.
2. Use an armor pot
You definitely dont look undergeared but patchwerk is not the place for reactive healing or lack of ProM.