Removal of Titanguard, yet addition of runeforge?

I will agree that Avenger's Shield will generate more threat on each target it hits than the heroic throw will on its single target however the point is that you do now have a threat generating ranged attack while pallies are lacking an ability to sprint into the fray and get solid positioning before the rest of the raid joins in the dps.

A fight where this is almost mandatory is Sapph. After your first wipe where he agros as soon as you step foot in the room. Till first flight phase, he is bombarding a the whole raid with blizzard because everyone is all crouded up at the entrance when the darn pally tank couldn't make enough ground before he was settled in his position.

Granted we still get him down... its just anoying.
Plus.... Heroic Leap would just look so awesome.

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Originally Posted by DwarvenTankard

A fight where this is almost mandatory is Sapph. After your first wipe where he agros as soon as you step foot in the room. Till first flight phase, he is bombarding a the whole raid with blizzard because everyone is all crouded up at the entrance when the darn pally tank couldn't make enough ground before he was settled in his position.

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I don't have that problem at all. I run in, spin him around, and the raid runs out.

I don't think the runeforge is an issue, no shield/ranged and no option for a 2H tanking weapon with defense makes it difficult for DKs to hit the cap. But on the other hand as a non-DK ask yourself....if they introduced a weapon enchant that increased your DR by 125 would you use it? Chances are yes...

Main thing I see is that the weapon enchants are still rubbish for tanking. At the moment they're all about threat (something no class has any serious issues with at the moment). The only reasonably 'tankingish' enchants are the old strength enchant and the new agility one. I'd like to see some better options is all

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Originally Posted by Lore

I don't have that problem at all. I run in, spin him around, and the raid runs out.

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We just have our tank run forward to grab Saph while the rest of the raid hugs the side and runs to the right. Sort of like back in the day on Onyxia.

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Originally Posted by Dagmarr

But Stoneskin is going to be the runeforge for 90% of DKs.

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Not really, cause DK have already a better avoidance Runeforge, the +4% parry one (who is NOT subject to DR; neither is the stoneskin defense by the way).
It will help DK who have not reached the Def cap or DK who have the def cap but because they enchanted/gemmed all or most of their gear with +def (what war and Pal dont need most of the time).
To give you an exemple, I am in full epic, most from raid 10 but a few from raid 25 too; I got the epic def trinket (the +84 one) and yet I am almost fully enchanted/gemmed for def to be at the cap. When I compare to war and pal tank in my guild, who have a stuff a bit inferior, they use almost no +def enchant or gems.


And, you cant compare our runeforge with an enchant; because runeforge is a DK skill and then is suposed to give us an advantage over the normal enchant.
It would be like comparing weapon's DPS enchants with the shaman's windfury "enchant"; of course they are superior, because it's a part of our classes advantages.
WAr and pal have some other advantages, like your 10% reduction damage, with def stance or talents.
And DK have some others too, I wont go into a comparison of all our talents, and skills, but runeforge is one of them, it's cant be compared to an enchant.

DK need this runeforge to be on par with war/pal about the def cap (about the difficulties to reach it); and the runeforge is superior to weapon enchants because it's a class skill.


And you say that DK will be able to stack gems/enchants etc for threat/surviving, like Pal and war already do? at least any war/pal with a good stuff.

Indeed, it is a part of a balance. DK's are balanced expressly understanding that we will need (or more would be silly not to take) a 'tanking' rune on our weapon to keep our gear on par.

Before though the tanking runes didn't make up for the lack of defense in 3 major slots (unless we dual wielded tank weapons, which Blizz made patently clear they didn't want to be necessary).

I don't know, I've got a frost DK buddy with this rune on his 2her. Despite having worse gear in a number of slots, not too mention not having the added bonuses of trade skill to his gear, he now has more stamina than my prot war, more armor and equivalent dodge/parry...maybe shield block is just that amazing, but it seems like in trying to balance the tanking classes, some are getting the short end of the stick for awhile.

From the reports of high gear tanks, if some tanks have the short end of the stick, it's seem to be DK and druid.

I dont see that for the moment, cause I am not really high gear (well full epic, but mostly 10 raid stuff) and the war and pal of my guild are a bit less geared (correct?), but that's what I can read everywhere (here, EJ, mmochamps, etc).


But anyway, I was not comparing war to DK; I was just saying that you cant compare a class skill with an enchant available to everyone.

If you want to compare tank classes, we can try, but it's not the thread (and there is already a few); but if war and pal are quite easy to compare (they work in the same way), DK and druid are far more complicate to compare because they dont use same mechanics.