Shielding a Prot. Warrior before a pull a no no?

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Originally Posted by Kinetix

I notice the rage starvation from PW:S almost instantly. There is another buff i've had that absorbs damage. But I cant remember who casts it.

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First post here:)

Could also be from a previous crit heal from a discipline priest. Divine Aegis looks much more 'bubbly' than PW:Shield does.

As a druid tank, I prefer not to get shielded on the initial pull. I'm not all that knowledgeable yet on the mechanics. I know I get rage from dodging, critting, but I also believe I get some from being hit.

As a rule, when I heal on my priest, I tend to not bubble the tank, except when moving (4 horsemen for example) or 'oh crap, tank's going to die'. The protection of the shield + glyph, has saved a few wipes.

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Originally Posted by mastersam562

Thats probably paladins sacred shield?

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It was actually this. Sacred Shield is the other culprit.

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Originally Posted by Kinetix

It was actually this. Sacred Shield is the other culprit.

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I'm curious as to how prot warriors feel about getting Sacred Shielded before pulls (bosses and trash), when I raid heal I always drop it (and beacon) on the MT (usually a warrior) and have never had any complaints, does this interfere at all with warrior rage generation or do most prot warriors prefer it or not care one way or the other ?

As a warrior tank the only times that I have rage starvation issues is during AoE pulls where I am cleaving every single swing. I can't recall on any 3-5 heroic trash mob pull where I have no rage. On boss pulls one hit eats the shield and then some. Wrath is a rage rich environment as a warrior. My biggest problem with my rotation right now is dumping all my rage.

I think the aversion that warrior tanks have to not being shielded is a hold over from pre-Wrath where it was a no-no.

Spam shields all you want on boss fights after i have my heels dug in, but please not on a pull unless the boss is just going to one shot the shield off of me and I have enough rage to get that first SSlam/devistate in there.

I think most view points on this subject are pretty well covered in the thread, I just though I'd add a personal point. My fiancee plays a priest and used to shield me in some of the less opportune times (AoE pulls, low rage situations etc). The solution is quite simple, don't start a fight with your healer or start chest thumping on how you are so good at this and know everything about that and just keep your stupid shields to yourself... just quietly click off the buff and move on :) After the instance bring it up and mention that in some situations is a good tool, but be careful to look at your tank's rage bar first. If its low, don't shield. If its high and the tank is getting hit regularly, go for it!

PW:S is a big no no in heroics. Especially prior to engaging a group or single mob. It gets worst with a Disc Priest since they will proc Divine Aegis.

I ran heroic VH just a few days back. I had to literally swap some of my gears in order to obtain enough rage to keep the AOE bunch of dpsers happy. With sufficient avoidance, u will notice the PW:S staying with u for a while.

I'd recommend only PW:S the tank in a 'oh shit' situation. Else just throw any HoTs or just spot heal your tank.

Shielding your tank prior to a pull is laziness. You can pre-heal and cancel it.

For me its not a big deal at all. Mitigates some burst dmg and such, and if my healer is comfortable with it then I dont bother in their rotation. Personally, I feel that if I'm at zero rage before each pull, im not going fast enough. You shouldnt be burning rage that quickly at the end of a pull.

I like to stop at around 10% of the mobs health, take a few hits while the DPS finish it off, that leaves me with about 20-30 rage, just enough for a SS or HS.

I had Maexxna running wild on me the other day because of 2 parrys from the boss, and 2 dodges by me, followed by a block, with the rest of the damage absorbed by a shield that a PuG disc. priest casted on me... Not fun. And in 5mans, whenever i see a bubble of any kind on me, I click it off. period. In case a situation arises, which warrants shielding me, I will be busy enough hammering my OH SHIT buttons, so I won't have time klicking it off then :D

I'd prefer them to not do it but I've never been that anal about what the healers think they need to do (My main up until LK was my resto shaman)
If your dps isn't balls to the wall from the second you pull it's not a problem.

And situations where a bubble would save your life are few and far between, but I'm not going to be sitting there clicking off bubbles just to spite the priest, at least all the priests I run with use it when they plan to not be healing, like shackling a mob or they are focusing on healing someone else just to buy them a second of not worrying about my health.

It really depends on how your tank starts the fight. as a warrior i never have an issue with the boss running towards the person who shielded me because i start every fight with a bloodthirst then a charge and immediately shield slam when im in range. the only boss fight that i wish not to be shielded on is saph, assuming its the first pull, i run in before his spawned and spam SS until it hits, however if a totem is down or im sheilded there is a rare chance that he might turn twards the raid and start off with a cleave, and thats always bad (its only ever happend to me once.. i was having a bad day)

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Originally Posted by Jungy

For me its not a big deal at all. Mitigates some burst dmg and such, and if my healer is comfortable with it then I dont bother in their rotation. Personally, I feel that if I'm at zero rage before each pull, im not going fast enough. You shouldnt be burning rage that quickly at the end of a pull.

I like to stop at around 10% of the mobs health, take a few hits while the DPS finish it off, that leaves me with about 20-30 rage, just enough for a SS or HS.

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This.
I've never had problems with being shielded before pulls, even in BC or Vanilla WoW. In Wrath it's also much less of an issue with Bloodrage/Charge giving 25-45 rage right off the bat to work with.
It's slightly more of an issue on my Druid for AoE groups since he can't TC etc. but I can still conserve rage/enrage before a pull and pick stuff up just fine with Swipe or Berserk Mangle.
Keep in mind (virtually) all bosses are tauntable, so it's hardly an issue to taunt it back on you at the start of a fight.
I get annoyed by Deathknights taunting bosses off me for some god awful reason (Is it bad I like to let them die just to spite them?), not Priests/Pallies bubbling me on the pull

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Originally Posted by Morgo

I had Maexxna running wild on me the other day because of 2 parrys from the boss, and 2 dodges by me, followed by a block, with the rest of the damage absorbed by a shield that a PuG disc. priest casted on me... Not fun. And in 5mans, whenever i see a bubble of any kind on me, I click it off. period. In case a situation arises, which warrants shielding me, I will be busy enough hammering my OH SHIT buttons, so I won't have time klicking it off then :D

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so, if he got to attack you at least 3 times, i know for sure that if you opened with a bloodthirst and a charge, fallowed by a SS>hs>rev. there is no way that shield would cause you to drop aggro..:(

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Originally Posted by Orifice

Is it truly a no no now to shield a warrior pre pull?
From my understanding the threat mechanics have changed since Lich King was released. I have healed as a Disc priest all the way up to Malygos heroic and have been shielding tanks this way from day one of the release of LK.
Today I lead a raid into 10 man Naxx to gear up some of our newer members and the lead tank for the raid a prot warrior was adamant about not shielding him before any pull or anytime he needed to get rage for threat generation....that is the first time since the LK release that any tank has had an issue with it and I promptly told him that. So what is the current situation with prot warrior threat generation and does shielding effect rage build up that much or does this prot warrior now know what he is doing? he especially said it was an issue during the four horseman when the two front tank have to trade bosses....

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I generally feel the same way about shielding before a pull as I do about using Heroic Strike: Only if I've got a considerable rage surplus (ie. over 50) do I really want to be shielded in a situation where I'm not going to die if I'm not shielded.

It's a little different when I'm not running with insane guild DPS who like to pull aggro whenever possible, but during trash packs rage certainly does matter, especially seeing I want to save bloodrage for emergency low-rage thunderclaps.

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Originally Posted by squats

so, if he got to attack you at least 3 times, i know for sure that if you opened with a bloodthirst and a charge, fallowed by a SS>hs>rev. there is no way that shield would cause you to drop aggro..:(

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It's not that I didn't land anything. It's just that I could not land enough because of dried up rage to keep her from chasing a FFB mage who just happend to have a hot streak proc few seconds into the pull, and who is used to me getting burst threat so he can go balls to the wall the moment we engage a boss (especially on trivial bosses). It's not the end of the world if something like this happens, the mage burned Illusions, I ran over and taunted her back, no harm done. But it's still annoying.


Haarg:

Don't get me wrong, I would never klick off a shield in any kind of tricky / dangerous situation. But there is just no reason to shield the tank in a "normal" pull during heroics, where I'm begging for rage to begin with.

Bottom line is.

if the tank is getting smashed hard enough to warrant a shield, then he won't complain about it because he won't be getting rage starved

if he's getting hit lightly enough that the shield would rage-starve him, he doesn't need the shield.

period.

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Originally Posted by Morgo

It's not that I didn't land anything. It's just that I could not land enough because of dried up rage to keep her from chasing a FFB mage who just happend to have a hot streak proc few seconds into the pull, and who is used to me getting burst threat so he can go balls to the wall the moment we engage a boss (especially on trivial bosses). It's not the end of the world if something like this happens, the mage burned Illusions, I ran over and taunted her back, no harm done. But it's still annoying.

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so what im seeing is maybe its a dpsers fault that shielding is a bad thing. it use to be dps waited until a few sunders were stacked to start.. now they go balls to the wall as soon as the tank pulls.

It's very helpful if the boss needs to be moved into a position away from the starting one or where your dps/healers need to get to a specific point. Fights like Heigan, Gluth, Sapphiron etc where you and your healers are on the move a bit at the start and your dps isn't going totally crazy right from the word go. Any buffer to stop an insta-gib in case all your healers are moving at once is a safe bet. On stationary pulls though use it as a mitigation tool rather than a starting move.

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Originally Posted by Slobash

...and your dps isn't going totally crazy right from the word go.

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this... never happens.

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Originally Posted by westernfox

I'm curious as to how prot warriors feel about getting Sacred Shielded before pulls (bosses and trash), when I raid heal I always drop it (and beacon) on the MT (usually a warrior) and have never had any complaints, does this interfere at all with warrior rage generation or do most prot warriors prefer it or not care one way or the other ?

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IMHO, Pally's Sacred Shield isn't a big deal, it doesn't go up until AFTER you take a hit, and it only absorbs 500 base (what maybe 1200 total at the higest gear levels?) from the next hit, and has a 6 second internal cooldown, which is way less absorbtion and way less often than say, blocking with my shield... as it also makes the paladin crit more with their heals (more important really), which both saves them mana and makes me not die, a pally would be stupid to not put this up, hell when I tank on my pally I put it up on myself.

The bottom line is PW:S, don't do it.

If you feel that you MUST do it, at least tell them (and the dps) that you are going to do so.

Now if only I could get my pally healers to stop BOPing (i suppose it is properly HoP now...) me on accident in the middle of fights... /grumble

If you're looking to PW:S before a pull, all your rage issues could be solved with a mighty rage potion before the pull. So long as you get the potion in before you enter combat, it won't effect your in-combat timer (but you won't be able to chug another pot for 2 minutes)

In my experience tanking i can not remember a shield that i received that i was happy about. Granted in some oh shit situations i might have received one, but i definitely did not notice then. The shield is basically even if warrior tank uses rage abilities nerfing his threat and the initial threat lead for a tank is very important so he can use more mitigation abilities ready to go when situation arrises as opposed to having the dps right behind you and all you can do is threat race. I raid heal as well if you think you are forced to pre heal a pull either you shouldn't be there and have some work to do yourself, or that tank really needs some work.

my 2 cents