I would simply tell your DPSers to review their rotations if you can't down him with 7 DPS.
finally got patchwerk 25 man down with me as mt last night, i saved the armor pot for the last 5% along with popping divine shield then one of our pally healers popped hand of sacrifice/divine protection while dps just burned him down :) he is really fun once you get the hang of things and don't give up. Also having a few mages does help with having 1 in each healer group for mana regen along with druids for intervate
the 50% thing wiht the melee DPS. the acid/slime/water doesnt do damage itself, it reduces all your stats by 75%, so leaving the stuff after entering leaves you at low health. now that patchwerk is a threat based fight, the slime is not nessesary, but in the pre-bc 40 man naxx, patchwerk's hatefuls go to the person wiht the most health within melee range. if your health was down to (bear wiht me, i wasnt an old school raider, i just wish i was) lets say 2000 (cuz i dont know what the real hp would be) and you had an OT wiht 10k, the OT would take the hatefuls, not you.
Source: EJ Forums
Source: Patchwerk - WoWWiki - Your guide to the World of WarcraftQuote:
Mother of god. There's a post 3 pages ago some guy named like Praetorian that explained how hateful strike worked. He does not suffer fools lightly, nor relish explaining himself twice (from what I've seen). I'll try and simplify this EVEN MORE by making a list.
1. Hateful strike is an ability.
2. Hateful strike adds super duper threat to the 2nd and 3rd highest people on his agro list (in 25 man).
3. Hateful Strike hits the person with the highest health of those 2
That's it. No special tricks, no deep breaths, no ancient chinese magic.
EDIT: even better, here's the unabridged text of the two posts so nobody should have to repeat themselves repeat themselves:
The amount of misinformation surrounding hateful strike is amazing, even after 30+ months of original Naxx release.
There are only three viable targets for hateful strike, and these are the three people 2nd, 3rd, and 4th on his aggro list within melee range. Hateful strike will hit the highest HP person out of those 3. Additionally, hateful strike will add threat to the target it hits, which helps keep these tanks on that hateful strike list. This is the reason where if your 3 hateful tanks are low hp, he would still hateful one of them and kill them, disregarding the fact that there were melee dps with higher HP.
Typically, the threat added by getting hit by a HS is more than enough to maintain these tanks on the hateful list, however there were occasions where tanks dropped off the list due melee dps pushing more threat than what HS gave your offtanks, but that was only seen during times where you'd run the old Naxx with level 70 people.
Sinking your melee into the slime doesn't help anyone, it's just stupid and you should quit doing it.
1) It's only the #2/#3 in 25-man, and #2 in 10-man.
2) When he HSes it actually adds threat to EVERYONE currently in the top 3 (or 2 for 10-man) on the threat-list. This is 100% transparent now. Just watch Omen or other threat-meter, during the fight. Every time he does an HS, everyone at the top of the list will see their threat jump upwards.
However, wowhead makes no reference to a threat table requirement. I think it's pretty well demonstrated that it shouldn't be necessary to dip in the slime at any point, but can someone clear this up for sure?Quote:
The 40-man level 60 version of Patchwerk selected hateful targets from the 2nd, 3rd and 4th melee targets on threat, however due to misunderstandings about the mechanics melee DPS would often get the slime debuff to reduce their HP. This misunderstanding has continued to the present today. It is not and has never been necessary for melee DPS to reduce their HP if the tanks are all doing their job.
Tested and tried. like 100 times. don't slime yourself.
Our guild is currently getting mangled at HC Patch, were running 2 warrs in equal gear and myself as a Protadin in slightly better gear. They both have more health so they are taking the hatefuls, but one of them seems to always get 1 shotted on the pull, and when he dosen't, patch ends up around 50% before our healers find it hard to pick up the slack.
Threat on patch is not a problem because the pally is MT, but once one of the hateful tanks dies, then our DK's and retridins are being picked off 1 by 1.
The tanks are all geared for Naxx 10 man, and all of us have successdully tanked KT
Yesterday I ran Naxxramas as the MT (first time, I am a Prot warrior). Everything went well. When we did Patchwerk I had to OT him, cause my gear was better than the Deathknight's.
My problem is: In our group we only had ranged dd, so the only melee classes where me and the deathknight. When the fight started I mostly could not do anything other than Autoattack one or two heroic strike but thats all. I could not "dps" very well cause I was constantly very very close to the deathknight regarding threat.
Does anyone have an idea how to avoid that?
I read a thread where someone spoke of Patchwerk attackin the one who pulled him, not the one who is first on the aggrolist? Is this for new Naxx also true, or have I to stay second on aggro hence doing only autoattacks?
thanks in advance to all of you
Alright, last night our guild attempted to down patchwerk in 10 man with myself (prot warriot) as the hatefull tank and a DK as the MT because my gear is much better than his.
We weren't successfull, but my question doesn't have much to do with that because I know the problem was just to low of dps and he kept getting to enrage, my question has to do with how hatefulls work, because what I saw happening seems different from what I am reading here.
On 2 of the attempts to down him the MT died and myself being second on threat moved to the MT position. Now from what I've read that should have automatically made whoever was second on threat after me the new target for hatefulls, but none of our melee dps was getting pwned by hatefulls, it just seemed like I was tanking both hatefulls and normal attacks. On one of our attempts where this happened we got him down from 80% to 10% with myself as the only tank. So is it possible to have just one tank taking both strikes or did patchwerk just bug out on us? The hatefulls weren't seeming to hit me all that hard even when the MT was up and I was for sure the guy taking the hatefulls, so if its possible to do it with one tank taking both strikes might we be better off just using 1 tank and having our DK just dps the fight?
what kind of add-ons would you suggest for a dps in this raid? Ive done my fair share of raiding but I'd like something to give me an edge
Shucks: It Is Entirely possible to have one tank take both the hatefuls and normal strikes, however if there are any melee dps within patchwerks "arms reach" they will be targeted by hatefuls, The target is the person in melee who has the highest health OTHER than the main tank. So, to be hit by both the hatefuls and by the normal melee, there needs to be only one person in melee range.
I can confirm that this can be done on NORMAL, by one tank. Myself a Protadin (28k Unbuffed health, 26k armour and 22/20/20+30(holy shield) avoidance stats was the only melee member of the party and so could tank both strikes, both the healers just healed through the damage i took, and the DPS had no problem killing patch before the enrage timer.
we had A moonkin, an ele shaman, a mage, a warlock, 2 hunters and a noob DK (we told him to stay out of the fight).
It seems to me Shucks, that your DPS sucks, and if you can't down patch on normal, you should send some of those DPS back to heroics - alternativly, if you feel the reason for your failure is because you only lack a small amount of extra DPS, bring classes with better buffs ie, pally's for Bom/ BoK and Druids for GOTW. Moonkin auras and feral druid auras help ALOT, as well as shaman and DK talent proc's.
Zepho, no offence, but if you need an add-on to DPS in a tank and spank DPS race fight, then you obviously need a better rotation/gear upgrade. This fight is the Simplist encounter in the whole of naxx for DPS, as your whole purpose in this fight is to kill Patchwerk as fast as possible.
atm i have only done nax as dps with the guild, i have never tanked in nax yet, Hoping to do it soon :) once my gear is better
With the 2 tanks, 1 takes the melee and 1 takes the hateful strikes, does the tank (OT) that takes the hateful strike taunt him when he does it or does patchwerk go for the other tank automaticaly assuming the OT should be second on the threat meter?
aaaa ignore my previous post, didn't realize there was 3 pages on this forum, just looked at the other posts and got my question answered, sorry everyone and tankspot for the pointless post lol
new to forums btw :)
i keep hearing patchwerk's hateful strikes are based off health, or its based off threat... im not to sure, but i remember i was fighting patchwerk once, and suddenly died. my health was topped off at right over 28k. and im DPS. i took a hatefull strike, thinking one of the tanks taking those hits had died. but nope, both were still up, and since beginning of fight i had been 5th on the threat meter.. im not saying the health thing is true, i dont know what happened.. but if its not the health bit, then why would they have the green liquid drop your health so much? and its strange that patchwerk is the only boss in naxx that you fight next to the green water. why not kill the myth on wether or not its health based, or threat based. and give an actual link FROM BLIZZARD that states so.. and not from a website that someone who doesnt work for blizzard made. if there is a blue post on the forums about said argument that tells exactly how it works. awesome. or if blizzard released somewhere the mechanics of this boss. but unless it is actually from blizz itself, and not from a private party who posts what they believe, or what other people have posted.. i can only go by what i have witnessed. i didnt get to do much raids in pre-BC. but naxx was originally a pre BC raid.. from what some have told me, not much has changed. i dont know, i didnt get to raid pre BC naxx. but what i have learned from other pre BC raids, is if your fighting a boss, and there is an item, or something close to said boss, then you usually need to use that thing, or what ever it is. so im looking at patchwerk, and here is this green water that will drop you health by half.. one side of the myth is that he hits the person with highest health... maybe its just me, but i see that this water is tied into the boss fight. i hear recently that they did change it so you dont have to dip into the water.. if they did, then at one point it was health based. but again, im still not sure, and can only go by what i have seen. if someone can post more info on this subject, that would be great to.
Is this in 25 man? If it is all 3 tanks have to be in front.
If it is 10 man, you went ahead and did not realise.