Do prot warriors need dps gear anymore?

Prot tanks would usually have a dps gear set with them when raiding pre 3.0. If I was the OT that night on the single boss fight I would usually wear enough prot armour to OT the boss adds and have a mix of dps gear on for the boss. I would drop my shield and switch to two weapons and then spam all the dps buttons like whirlwind, devastate, and execute when it came available.

I have not had the time by using something like recount to see if switching to dps gear pumps out more dps vs wearing our prot gear and wearing a shield. Has anyone figured this out yet?

With the loss of all the block value on most of my prot gear I don't want to drop that gear because of the dps boost it gives my shield slams.

Does anyone switch over anymore to dps plate which does not have any block value at all which means we loose out on the shield slam dps bonus? Do we pump out more dps with our shields now in full prot spec vs switching to dps gear and loosing all those advantages that shields now give us?

Like I said above I have not taken the time to see if we pump out more dps wearing dps gear and two swords vs full prot gear with block value and trinkets. I have the feeling that I am carrying a lot of potential shards in my bags and in my bank. :)

You are forgetting the soon to be implemented dual spec system...you would be gimping yourself not carrying dps gear, for fights where you were not tanking you would switch to dps gear AND spec.

If you want to use a DPS spec as your second spec once Blizz get around to implementing dual specs then you will want to pick up DPS gear. Otherwise I can't say to be honest, I haven't played around with gear setups for prot DPS.

I forgot about the two specs.

Having the two spec system will be ok if we are in a situation where we have weak adds to contend with because we do not want to nerf our abilities to off tank on a boss fight. The two spec system will be a benefit if we know we can switch spec's to dps and not put the raid in danger. I think the two spec system will make it cheaper for tanks who also like to pvp for sure. :)

Yep, I'm looking forward to it :) I think it won't be usable in combat but you will be able to switch for trash or different boss fights if you need more or less tanks etc.

My main concern is while in full prot spec do we gain or loose dps by switching gear? DPS gear has a lot of strength but usually no block value. Since most of our DPS is due to our new tank abilities focused on our shiled I have yet to take off my shiled yet since 3.0 :)

That's what I haven't tested. I've tried DPS gear with shield equipped but not on a target dummy, next time I spec Prot I'll give it a try to see which is better.

Even with only 1 spec, I have unfortunately found that dual-wield devastate in dps gear will still pump out more dps on a boss than a Shield Slam set. And for what it's worth, it kills you on the inside to see sword and board procs when you have no shield equipped. I even tried switching in a shield when it procs and then back again ... alas, 'twas ineffectual.

I was thinking more in the terms of being in a raid in which one boss or the trash might require 4-5 tanks, then the next boss only requires 1-2. You will serve much more of a raid benefit dps'ing from a arms or fury spec with appropriate gear than you would prot specced with a shield, or prot specced with cast off dps gear.

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Originally Posted by Tenraiel

Even with only 1 spec, I have unfortunately found that dual-wield devastate in dps gear will still pump out more dps on a boss than a Shield Slam set. And for what it's worth, it kills you on the inside to see sword and board procs when you have no shield equipped. I even tried switching in a shield when it procs and then back again ... alas, 'twas ineffectual.

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I disagree.

I have a prot dps set, and at that I'm planning on a prot dps spec when dual specs drop. I love the play style. If you gear it right you can do serious dps with prot, wearing a shield. I stack Strength heavily for the AP and block value, though with the gear I'm hit capped and have cranked up crit value. Shield Slam with SnB is great dps value with the right gear (I also have a big block value ring, and a block value trinket for harder hitting shield slams, I've hit for 4-5k crits on shield slam).

Prot dps can be quite serious if you play it smartly, and you can do it now even without a separate spec. So, to answer the original poster, I most definitely do carry a dps spec, I just don't put it together the same as I would for Arms of Fury (though it'd probably work well for Arms if I swapped out the Block Value gear).

What I have noticed about wearing a shield or switching to dual welding... If you are taking hits, the shield will out dps the extra weapon. If you are actually playing the role of an OT and do not have much incoming damage, 2 1h weapons > shield. Atleast with my lvl of hit/crit. It really starts to show a diffrence when it comes time to finish off the boss with execute spam.

Weapons
Defensive:
Kings Defender w/ Executioner
Shield of Impenetrable Darkness

Vs. Duel Welding
Gladiator's Cleaver
Gladiator's Hacker

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Originally Posted by Satorri

I disagree.

I have a prot dps set, and at that I'm planning on a prot dps spec when dual specs drop. I love the play style. If you gear it right you can do serious dps with prot, wearing a shield. I stack Strength heavily for the AP and block value, though with the gear I'm hit capped and have cranked up crit value. Shield Slam with SnB is great dps value with the right gear (I also have a big block value ring, and a block value trinket for harder hitting shield slams, I've hit for 4-5k crits on shield slam).

Prot dps can be quite serious if you play it smartly, and you can do it now even without a separate spec. So, to answer the original poster, I most definitely do carry a dps spec, I just don't put it together the same as I would for Arms of Fury (though it'd probably work well for Arms if I swapped out the Block Value gear).

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I think you misunderstand me. I know that we do awesome dps now with a sword and board. However, on boss kills where I'm not tanking and I need to be pumping out the best numbers I can, I get it done with a dual wield devastate set, not my SS set. If you don't believe me, you could probably test it at the target dummies. My dps gear is ~ a tier behind my tanking gear yet it IS doing more. Is that the way I wish it? No, I'd prefer to smash something with my shield. I will not punish my raid by accepting lower dps just because I want to Shield Slam for my dps. Devastate gets it done right now.

In the situation being described (either OT'ing or just straight dps'ing) unless there was a decent amount of aoe damage going out, wouldn't you be rage starved trying to shield slam?

Oh, I don't misunderstand, and I'm sure with your gear dual wielding works better. I just mean to say it's not universal. You can build a dps set built around using a shield and it works quite well. Of course, comparing them overall is like trying to say which is better with Mage or Lock dps, the player factors and gearing to what you play makes a much bigger difference than just the different playstyle.

I'm also never rage starved when I dps, and I don't have Imp Bloodrage which I have in my 80 prot dps spec.

With my particular gear and spec, I get more dps stat value out of a shield than a 1-hand offhand thanks to Armored to the Teeth (shields are HUGE armor value to apply with that talent). 3 AP per 180 armor, with a 5400 armor value shield translates into 90 delicious AP, and I have a dps set shield that has big big block value (neglecting defense and dodge, etc), hit value, and a block value enchant, so I really crank shield slams. Plus with SnB proc'ing my rage efficiency while dpsing is huge (I also use Puncture and Focused Rage for making the Devastates cheaper between Shield Slams. I also have Imp Charge which I can use to pump up my rage if I drop low or just if the boss encounter allows.

It's all in the details. I'm sure you could actually gear up smartly to get more effect out of DW Dev play, but there's so much you already take in Prot that supports shield use. Also for soloing, I love Imp Def stance and Imp Revenge, I actually solo in Defensive stance and do more damage than if I did in Battle or Zerker stance, though that's soloing and not what we were talking about here. =)

This has been my experience with IF dummies - ie no AOE splash damage

DPS gear -about 2k ap dual wielding MH fist some arp does about 1k -
sword / shield with mix of AP/Shield Block value gear (mix of t5/badge/t6) yields about 750

A prot warrior does not have the ability to add dps gear after combat starts meaning that your basically stuck with a 1hander and shield (using SBV gear i'd think as prot)and no Damage shield dps.

An arms or TG warrior however can gear for prot so they dont get critted with resilience gear and lose less DPS doing it because a significant amount of their DPS is caused by swapping back to the 2handers and bleeding for their 20% damage or so after their tanking role is finished. Sure you lose dps but i doubt you can lose enough DPS to fall into an equally geared Prot warriors DPS range due to the damage shield not providing any DPS and not haing bleed damage ticking.

so i'd say if theres an arms warrior with a decent PVP/Prot set they will out DPS a Prot warrior in SBV gear. not to mention they get a heap of talents and such which makes dps happen better. If your not tanking a big hitter then most of the avoidance is useless as you have your own healer as a tank anyways.....you just have to live to get to DPSing.

Damage shields is nice additional threat but when I'm tanking that usually constitutes no more than 5% or so of my total damage.

I don't doubt we'll see more than a few Arms/Fury OT's filling that mid-combat switch, but don't underestimate the damage value of a smart prot warrior.

Hard to say. I prefer the prot playstyle in all forms over DPS. I have only respecced fury in the past to do specific, specialized things and even then I got bored fast.

That said, swapping in a few pieces of DPS gear while still running Rev/SS while farming is potent. To min/max at lvl 80 DPS as an OT on single tank fights, I'm not really sure. I am a packrat, however, and will keep an up to date fury/DW Dev set under development.

I'm not going to deal with dual spec until I see it in game and operational. It changes nothing other than holding on to a 2 hander or 2 for MS or TG.

I used to carry a dps set for duel wield devastate for when I didn't have to tank something. However, with the changes to shield slam I have found that I do more damage in my tanking "threat set" then I did with my dps set. Best recommendation is to find a target dummy and look at some recount logs with different sets on. The difference will be hugely gear dependent. For now it looks like I have some open bag space though :)

I have the same feeling as Tenraiel. My dps gear is the badge fists, some badge gear, some T5, a few bits of T6. It's focused on strength/attack power since that is best for devastate spam. I also have a threat tank set that is T6 with some extra block value and expertise.

I've tried the old dps gear, dps gear + shield and threat set. And the old one still feels best. The other sets make me rage starved, probably since I'm missing off hand whites.

I even notice a difference when grinding (and thus getting hit). I have less downtime with the shield on, but the mobs go down faster when dual wielding.