[Dany]

Source: Satrina My article deals with attacks initiated by mobs against players only. The rules are different for player vs. mob and player vs. player. For example, we know that mobs can block your crits, and players can as well in some cases.

Yes, but it goes against the statement you quoted, and that could be found here: Attack table: - WoWWiki - Your guide to the World of Warcraft

In June of 2005, a Blizzard representative made the following statement: "The way WoW calculates crit rate is over ALL attacks. Crit rate is not based on hits only. In other words, if you have a 5% crit rate, that 5% chance includes misses."

In the article above, they state that there's 2 different roll system, single-roll for white attacks, and 2-roll for yellow attacks.
A test was done on yellow attack here: Backstab: Two Rolls? - Elitist Jerks

Objectively, any 2-roll model goes against the blue statement IF and only if the system didn't change meanwhile of course.
But experiencing crits blocked really don't fit the single-roll system.


anyway, good work compiling these hit information.

[Armageddn]

thank you for the explanation every body =D

i was just a little confused for a minute there <3

[kittikat]

Source: Dany Yes, but it goes against the statement you quoted, and that could be found here: Attack table: - WoWWiki - Your guide to the World of Warcraft In the article above, they state that there's 2 different roll system, single-roll for white attacks, and 2-roll for yellow attacks. A test was done on yellow attack here: Backstab: Two Rolls? - Elitist Jerks Objectively, any 2-roll model goes against the blue statement IF and only if the system didn't change meanwhile of course. But experiencing crits blocked really don't fit the single-roll system. anyway, good work compiling these hit information.

Dany: I would suggest not using WoWWiki as a fountain of truth. It is, in many areas lacking or completely incorrect.

[Dany]

Source: kittikat Dany: I would suggest not using WoWWiki as a fountain of truth. It is, in many areas lacking or completely incorrect.

I know, but do you aggre that your 2-roll model that you conclude with

Adding Hit increases both our hit rate and our crit rate (until hit capped against the target) by reducing misses. This is due to misses being turned into hit, which on the second roll can be turned into crits.

doesn't fit at all with the original blue statement ?..

At least regarding miss vs crits. Maybe there's a second roll regarding blocks, glancing blows and so on... but miss, hit and crits NEED to share the same roll.

Would be great to be more precise: linking official sources or solid numbers before assuming such models .

[kittikat]

The 2-roll model indeed does not agree with the 2005 post that a Blizzard Rep allegedly made. But then again, based on these images, he is proven without a doubt, wrong, when it comes to special attacks (which is what I said the 2-roll model is used on, as well as Hunter attacks)





Also, another occurrence of WoWWiki contradicting itself:
Your initial post with the attack table link:
Attack table - WoWWiki - Your guide to the World of Warcraft

Then this post with how hits (and special attacks) are derived:
Hit - WoWWiki - Your guide to the World of Warcraft

[Dany]

Source: kittikat The 2-roll model indeed does not agree with the 2005 post that a Blizzard Rep allegedly made. But then again, based on these images, he is proven without a doubt, wrong, when it comes to special attacks (which is what I said the 2-roll model is used on, as well as Hunter attacks) http://www.layoutsource.net/uploads/...3rWAsQqlof.jpg http://www.layoutsource.net/uploads/...PqHUlIw1YM.jpg Also, another occurrence of WoWWiki contradicting itself: Your initial post with the attack table link: Attack table - WoWWiki - Your guide to the World of Warcraft Then this post with how hits (and special attacks) are derived: Hit - WoWWiki - Your guide to the World of Warcraft

First, Wowwiki is a wiki, and by definition, it is written by anybody. The second link doesn't provide any source, neither any numbers. It has the same value as your assumptions.

Secondly, your screenshots only show that a hit can be a crit and a block at the same time, showing that crit and blocks are on 2 different rolls.

But the only way to prove that crit and miss are on 2 different rolls is to prove that:

For the following, I'll assume a boss target, with no +Hit, and 20% listed Crit rate. [...] So, the end result in this case is: MISS: 9% HIT: 72.8% CRIT: 18.2%

is true by going outside and hit thousand of times a mob and end with a 18,2% crit rate..

The blue statement only talks about crits taking misses into account. With your example, it should end with:
MISS: 9%
HIT: 71,6%
CRIT: 19,4% (20%-0,6% due to lvl +3)

and then, why not, for yellow attacks, you could have a roll that decide that your crit is blocked or not.
But crits are taking misses into account means that if it's written 20% to crit lvl 70 in your character sheet, then you have 20% to crit over all of your attacks and not less because your not hit capped ..

And even concerning this model, it lacks dodges...

[kittikat]

Yes, the model was a very basic rudimentary example of how the rolls are considered for attacks, so I left out block, dodge, and parry...I'm lazy.

This was basically a cliff's notes of everything I've been able to find off EJ, WoWWiki, Roguespot, Class Forums, and other knowledge tanks, and compared and condensed them into a truncated overview.

You bring up very valid points, points that I'll have to go back over and re-clarify.

[Dany]

In fact, I'm solidifying my point of view about this attack table at the same time :P.

But there's one thing I would verify.
While auto attacking, Is it possible to have a hit-blocked ? a crit-blocked ? a glancing blow-blocked ? Until now I thought it can't happen, but never paid attention to that.
Just to be convinced that white attack is on a single-roll.

Second thing:
Can a special attack non-crit be blocked ?
If not, then first roll should be miss/dodge/hit/crit and a second only for block ?

That's how I think of it for today, hitting from behind the mob .

[Kazeyonoma]

Great Guide!

[kittikat]

Updated the Hit/Miss/Crit/1- & 2-Roll System section.

[kittikat]

Updated Glancing and Expertise percentages and calculations to the Expertise and Roll-Table sections (post #5 and #6)

[MichaelRo]

If special attacks are calculated via 2 rolls system that means that:
-if you are not hit caped your yellow attacks will actually have lower crit rate that what is show on your character tooltip.

Also if special attacks are calculated via 2 rolls and you are not expertise caped we have following situation:

We are suposing that you have 30% crit chance and you attack a mob from behind.
The mob is your level - thus you have 5% miss rate, 5% dodge rate.
So first calculation:

1-90 hit
91-95 dodge
96-100 miss

If the attack was succesful we have another calculation:

1-30 crit
31-100 hit

So actually the crit rate should become:
0.9*0.3=27%.

Can someone do some statistics in game for yellow hits and post them?
So we know if yellow hits are calculated via 2 rolls or only via 1 roll.