[Ciderhelm]

I've been following the responses, and I appreciate them. I will not be editing the talent recommendation until evidence is presented on the impact of Crusader.

1) If a person reads this site and is just looking to level as fast as possible, the advice is to take two professions and get Crusader. That's the most efficient, and the leveling talent build reflects that.

2) If a person isn't as interested in leveling as fast as possible -- which is the case if you'd choose the less efficient leveling build -- then they're here to learn detailed information about their class and about leveling. If they are doing that, then they've read both the analysis and the counter-arguments.

3) Evidence is required before ruling anything on Crusader. Please bear in mind the enchant is PPM-based and will proc more often with a two-handed weapon using instant attacks than it will with a single one-handed weapon. When there are two Crusader enchanted weapons, the off-hand is substantially less likely to proc. This doesn't change that dual Crusader is a great asset, but it muddies the water enough that it's not cut-and-dry.

Source: Sethis Basically, if you're going to make a guide about levelling a character (and present numbers to support it), don't assume from the word go that everyone can gear them up the same way as you can. Don't get me wrong, it's a wonderful article, and far more than I could ever be bothered to research, but as demuck says... maybe make it more clear that Crusader is an essential part of the guide that might make it slightly inaccurate if you don't have it.

There are people who will spend more time looking for someone to give them a concrete answer than the difference it would have taken them to level a slightly less optimal spec to 70. This is true for every other facet of the game as well.

The goal is to create a quick answer, then point them to a resource if they want the details, the counter-arguments, the exceptions to the rule. People who care are going to read these counter-arguments you guys are making, and that's a good thing. But not providing a solid answer quickly makes the search for reliable information harder for some visitors.

[demuck]

Source: Ciderhelm I will not be editing the talent recommendation until evidence is presented on the impact of Crusader.

Good call Cider. We've all read Mordok's post. As it turns out, even without crusader enchants, a DW fury build might put out more dps than an equivalent 2h fury build.

As a new leveling warrior I wholeheartedly accepted Mordok's recommendation to dual wield fury while leveling. As I learned what was up and particularly how expensive a crusader enchant is, I began to doubt the accuracy of his data. In fact, for a leveling warrior running without enchants, Mordok recommends a 2h Fury (or arms) build based on weapon availability mostly for horde weapons.

I took this recommendation, respecced 2h fury and was disappointed by the result. My dps wasn't as explosive as I expected. So I decided to run a very limited test. I killed the same mob over and over and recorded my DPS as a 2h Fury warrior. Then, without even respeccing, I did the same thing while dual wielding. My results might suprise you. My DPS was actually higher without even respeccing! Then, another suprise, I respecced back to DW fury and my DPS didn't increase all that much!

If you'd like to quarrell with my data I request that you run the same test (leveling warriors only obviously). Just post complete stat data so we can evaluate how your gear is affecting your DPS.

Here's my data:
For all data sets I was a Lvl 42 Warrior vs. Lvl 43 and 44 Naga warrior mobs (in STV).

2h spec
build: Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft
Weapon: Sword of the Magistrate The World of Warcraft Armory
STR: 204
Attack Power (w/ my shout on) 676
Crit%: 14.56 (yes I was in berzerker stance)

DPS 83.5 over 31 mobs

changing weapons altered the stats as follows
Weapon:
MH: Greater Scythe of the Boar (22.1 dps +4 Str 2.8 speed)
OH: Crescent of Forlorn Spirits (22.8 dps increase critical strike rating +8 1.6 speed)
STR: 200
Attack Power (w/ shout): 668
Crit% = 15.56

DPS 95.5 over 23 mobs

Then, after respeccing DW my stats were:
Build: Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft (there may be some mistakes, but these mistakes only support my conclusion ).
STR: 200
Attack Power (w/ shout): 668
Crit %: 15.52

DPS 98.1 over 46 mobs

Now for the disclaimers. I'm not perfect at the improved slam attack rotation, but I do get the basic premise. Use quartz (swing timer), slam right after a melee attack (before if you time it for lag), use other abilities as rage permits but prioritize slam. My inexperience may count for *some* of the dps discrepancy, but not all of it. Also, there are times when my shout expires and I don't notice, so I'm not perfect there either, but that was throughout all the testing (usually at the first of a series. I'm good at remembering after I start), so I think it balanced out.

I think that my level (42) was a bit high to fully confirm Mordok's conclusion sans the ($$) enchants, but it is firming up.

(p.s. Mordok, I'm interested in your thoughts if you read this)

[Ciderhelm]

Demuck, I guess I'm just tired, but are you saying the recommended leveling spec (DW) is fine?

[demuck]

Source: Ciderhelm Demuck, I guess I'm just tired, but are you saying the recommended leveling spec (DW) is fine?

Yes. My own data disproved my criticism. What's more it somewhat confirms Mordok's theory even without the crusader enchants.

[Archangelneun]

I did a spec wondered if it was viable, i might try it soon basically, its to OT well 10man even 25man as a third tank spec, and to still dps good, and the concussion blow gives me a 5 second CC, which is not bad + intercept, if the combo is done properly that'd be 7-8 seconds of cc, + i can always switch fast to shield + def stance if anything happens.
Any comments on how it could (not) work ?

Warrior - Talents - Thottbot: World of Warcraft

WorldofWarcraft.com -> Info -> Classes -> Warrior -> Talent Calculator