[Qaletaqa]

I'm hoping that as this becomes more and more obvious as more guilds progress past T5 content that Blizzard will see this and change Lacerate to scale with AP, with a split AP formula similar to how Moonfire and Regrowth work (50% spelldamage applied to inital burst and the other 50% spread over the ticks). And yes, it's counter-intuitive, most of us Bears only recently got comfortable with using Lacerate instead of Swipe (2 years of collecting limited Feral Gear in MC-Naxx and seeing what I could get away with in 5-mans post-1.8 on the weekends had me very hooked to Swipe originally) and now to go back to it is not only rough because it's a switch, it's annoying to be given a great ability only to have it's usefulness be short-lived due to non-scaling damage.

[psychostomp]

quick question qal.

Are you factoring in full raid buffs when trying to reach these AP numbers? I know of at least 1 druid on my server who is no further progressed than gruuls who has reported over 2100 ap in raids. Kings SoE and BS are all huge buffs to Bear AP and could easily grant an extra 6-700 AP, making the 230 damage more readily attainable.

[Qaletaqa]

To be honest, I never factor in full raid buffs except when I want to know the limits of what's absolutely possible, because when it comes to raid attendance, Life happens. That's the core reason behind why we have "minimum requirements" in order to do content, we've figured out the bare minimum for doing something based on assuming the worst concerning available buffs and group placement.

Let's say your guild only has 2 Shamans, one Enhancement and one Elemental, you've been LF Resto shaman the past month, but no success. You're in Gruul's and you need to stack your HP for taking the strike from Gruul. That means you're most likely in the same group as the MT for Commanding Shout and Blood Pact. As long as both you and your MT know how to tank, the 2 Shamans are better off in their respective DPS groups benefitting their entire group with WF and WoA/ToW than pulling one of them into yours.

That's a very plausible situation, and for those that say "make one of them respec" not only is it not necessary, but there's enough guilds out there nowadays on any given server that even a DPS hybrid can walk out and be guilded again at the same level of progression or better within a week or two unless it was in a guild that was clearing BT/Hyjal.

[Phyxius]

Great guide Qal, tyvm for posting =P

[Igrado]

Excellent guide. I'm linking it to my guild of course. It was really good for me to read as it just gave me a bit more insight into Druid tanks, which I really wanted. Still not rerolling though. <3

[psychostomp]

yeah i definitely understand the limits of group composition was just curious if that had been factored in. great job and very informative especially for us non druids.

[Bulldozzer]

In tanking gear, over 2K AP isn't hard to do with very many buffs. I norm sit just over 1.7K AP self-buffed, not counting food/pots, etc.

Reaching the magic number for swipe damage isn't hard at all with full 25-man raid buffs.

FYI- Need to flip the links on your cookie cutter and max armor builds.

[Qaletaqa]

Source: Bulldozzer In tanking gear, over 2K AP isn't hard to do with very many buffs. I norm sit just over 1.7K AP self-buffed, not counting food/pots, etc. Reaching the magic number for swipe damage isn't hard at all with full 25-man raid buffs. FYI- Need to flip the links on your cookie cutter and max armor builds.

The links are fine, one's a normal Feral build, the 2nd is for those who are surpassing the 35.8k armor cap for 75% physical mitigation vs. raid level mobs, and no longer need full points in Thick Hide.

As for over 2k AP, see above post about Real life compared to Utopian circumstances. By the time you reach regular full attendance of all necessary classes in BC at this point in the expansion, you're probably already beyond the gear minimum to achieve this on your own without buffs.

[Igrado]

Qaletaqa, I can see how he misread your link names. Perhaps the second link should be renamed so that it is clear it is for when you have reached max armor, not when you need to max your armor through talents.

[Taur]

Great guide . Good to see druids get a run on TankSpot!

Just a question that i haven't been able to get an adequate response on from others regarding the Feral Aggression talent. Why does it rate so poorly for raiding? (i.e. a blue rating.. on par with useless healing talents). Yes, i agree it is far from our better talents, however when you get to the last few leftover talent points when speccing, it surely must rate some consideration? How does Primal Tenacity get a yellow rating that really has zero-minimal impact in a raid scenario, yet a damage reducer, regardless how minor, gets no consideration?

My concern is the rejection of Feral Aggression is largely old-school mantra. 92 AP reduction may not seem that much of a reduction (certainly not for 5 talent points), however my understanding is that raid boss damage is based not on large AP numbers, but by a multiplier to AP. If that is the case, doesn't that make the reduction of boss AP far more valuable?

Which also raises another question... boss/elite trash buffs. When i first got smacked by one of those bear-riders in ZA when it was self-buffed, i have to say i was pretty surprised to find myself copping more melee damage from trash than i could remember from a lot of bosses pre-Gruul. Now are their buffs big damage modifiers? If so, doesn't it seem logical that talents like Feral Aggression would be more valuable than is commonly accepted?

If someone could clarify on this issue it would be really appreciated