[Archfiend]

Tanking... when everyone else in the raid whines about the 5g worth of reagents they have to buy to last the whole run, we cringe at the 5g repair bill - per death! - that we have to pay each time the same dps that dragged us out in the first place decides to show off and ends up wiping the group...

When it's good enough for a mage to just have a single spell (polymorph), nevermind whether or not he knows how to use it properly, while a tank has to justify his gear, spec, and stats to a group leader that probably doesn't even understand why we try to get 490 defense in the first place...

When tanks understand that the fundamental reason for a supposed 'tank shortage' isn't that there aren't enough people that would be willing to do it, but that you need a 3:1 ratio of dps to tanks in the first place, so it's actually easier to get into groups as dps than to try to compete for the few coveted tank spots...

... Then it's no wonder tanks look back at the trail of tears it took to get to the point they're at and pass on old stuff. Guild loyalty has to go both ways.

[Nezastus]

I became one of "those" tanks. When I was working up my tank, I spent so much time in those 5 mans grinding rep to get in heroics ( when you had to :P ) that going back in now is just plain boring and annoying. Its usually half geared alts that are screwing around because they know they had a good tank, not paying attention to threat so I end up chasing mobs all over until I just start letting the mobs eat them. haha Plus with spending 4+ hours 5 nights a week tanking in 25 man raids, running 5 mans hold zero interest to me. And its nice to just screw around and relax for once to mine or farm greds etc. Get the alt non-raid tanks to do it IMO. I only do it for close friends or if its a geared group that is just going to blow up the place.

[thedrawrf]

I understand your tanks 100%...Tanking Kara, tanking 5 mans, tanking ancient content like that....Isn't fun. And when the group or raid decides to start f'ing around, who dies? The tank! Who feels like they suck, and it must be their fault? The tank! ect ect ect

[geros]

Source: Kazeyonoma O_o

exactly!

[Joanadark]

There is no real shortage of tanks. Only tanks for bad PuGs. So unless Blizzard can hotfix stupidity, there will always be a shortage of tanks because any tank worth a damn won't go near a random PuG.

Given assurance of a group that can clear the heroic/10-man with ease, I actually can get over sickness of the instance and enjoy it as an opportunity to kick back a little, have some fun, and make some money and shards for a change.

But most of the time it's not an undergeared player or two and the rest of the group composed of solid, reliable DPS and healers up to the tank's gear level, it's 4 terribly geared power-leveled alts that want you, the tank, to carry them
It isn't that running instances isn't fun, CARRYING people isn't fun.

Sometimes there's nothing more enjoyable than running some obscenely late-night drunken kara or heroic and just blowing stuff up in rediculous ways to see if you can.

But ask me to have to concentrate on trivial stuff because I have a healer alt in remnants of t2 responsible for keeping me alive....you'll find me less than enthusiastic.

If you can't pull your weight, or if the rest of your group can't pull their weight, without having to be told to, then don't expect any tank to want to burden themself with getting you free hand-outs.

[Gehn]

Source: Joanadark There is no real shortage of tanks. Only tanks for bad PuGs. So unless Blizzard can hotfix stupidity, there will always be a shortage of tanks because any tank worth a damn won't go near a random PuG. Given assurance of a group that can clear the heroic/10-man with ease, I actually can get over sickness of the instance and enjoy it as an opportunity to kick back a little, have some fun, and make some money and shards for a change. But most of the time it's not an undergeared player or two and the rest of the group composed of solid, reliable DPS and healers up to the tank's gear level, it's 4 terribly geared power-leveled alts that want you, the tank, to carry them It isn't that running instances isn't fun, CARRYING people isn't fun. Sometimes there's nothing more enjoyable than running some obscenely late-night drunken kara or heroic and just blowing stuff up in rediculous ways to see if you can. But ask me to have to concentrate on trivial stuff because I have a healer alt in remnants of t2 responsible for keeping me alive....you'll find me less than enthusiastic. If you can't pull your weight, or if the rest of your group can't pull their weight, without having to be told to, then don't expect any tank to want to burden themself with getting you free hand-outs.

Truly. Half of the reason I switched servers was this. A good offer and the guild doing Kara dies w/o the MT. As everyone else is alting about, find an alt tank.

[TomHuxley]

I've run into a bit of 5-man burnout myself. I ground my way through them, often with pugs or RL friends. I'll still run Kara or other "raid-lite" instances to gear up guildies (I do every week, both ZA and Kara) and so far I find them enjoyable and the badges are still quite nice. While I certainly do run heroics, they are quite a drag at this point, so I mostly do them either a) as a favor to someone in the guild, or b) with an OP guild run for badges and/or specific loot (e.g. MgT).

I really like to help out guild members, and there are lots of ways to do so (loans, donated materials, instance runs, etc) but I barely have enough time to earn gold for repairs and consumables as it is, let alone PvP. If a guild told me I "had" to do a certain number of heroics every week I'd /gquit as fast as my fingers could type it.

[rocket808]

I personally dont mind anything that the players come and put effort in. as you say, when we as tanks are helping pull the people through the instance as top dps (wtf) - this is when i get annoyed.

when the group is one that are testing my threat skills (with advanced notice), where i can test certain reaction times, or things that i wont do in a 25 man which could wipe a raid, i do still enjoy it.

[Elyvern]

What I found disturbing was - back when the ZA patch was released, there were some awesome badge gear such as Brooch of Deftness and Bracers of Ancient Phalanx that were better than gear that dropped in TK/SSC. Yet only a few of our tanks actively farmed badges (kara & heroics) outside of regular raids to buy those pieces. The rest continued to depend on raid drops for their gear.

Personally, I'm a believer that a good heroic tank can easily become a good raid tank, but not vice versa. Simply put, most raid encounters don't require the kind of control and situational awareness that a difficult heroic requires. So running heroics is a great way keeps your skills and reflexes sharp. Furthermore, a tank should always attempt to get the best gear he/she can obtain at that point in time. If it's crafted or badge gear, all the better, because now you don't have to depend on 25man to get upgrades.

Burn out or not, I find it hard to justify not running these zones when there are raid tanks that can obviously use badge upgrades but aren't out there running heroics and getting badges to buy them.

[Corise]

As said before, a good rapport with the tank from these new members is probably the best way to get assistance from your well geared tank. Usually the only thing a tank gets from running five mans are a few badges and a repair bill (and very rarely a thanks). You might think badges might be nice, but high end raiding can now get you a lot of badges, I have almost two stacks of badges with that just sit in the bank.

Also you mention nothing of your other classes, is it only your well geared tanks that are not helping? Is the person in need of help bringing three other well geared main raiders to help with this instance? Or are you expecting the tanks to gear this new person with three other alts?

Lastly I would like to say, with the advent of season three pvp gear made available for cheaper, and season two gear made available for mere honor, I find it hard to believe that these people NEED Kara and and five man items to make them competitive in a pve setting. Sure PVP gear is certainly not the best for PVE, but it is significantly on par with anything from what you want your tanks to run.

My advice, have the people you recruit spend their time doing BG's with your main tank, your tanks may enjoy the PVP and build a good relationship with them, as well as get honor for your recruits to buy some decent gear.