[Kinslayer]

So just downed Prince for the upteenth time with the guild, and two non-guild, when the whole T4 debate kicks off.

There is a warlock from my guild, who is a good player, and an officer, helps with management, and arranging events, and is an allround very nice girl. She still has a blue helm despite decent other gear, and her main focus of replacement has been the T4 headpiece.

There is too a Mage, not from our guild, but from a guild we have a raiding alliance with, who isn't such a good player, and had already won the Cloak which too drops off Prince, but like our Warlock, he was very excited at the opportunity for T4, and this was his first Kara run, so he was just generally excited all night..

I thought maybe I should have said, one epic each, if you get this, you can't roll for this, etc. But because I hadn't stated this prior to the cloak roll, for which they both rolled, I felt it was a bit too late.

So we come to the roll for the Helm, the lock, and the mage roll... The Mage wins. After a lot of debate in /officer chat, with messages saying the Lock has earnt it, I stick to my word and go with the roll winner.

Have I done a bad thing??

I think T4 is a bit overrated, but it was a good upgrade for both of them, so I guess its no excuse. But I've seen people get by fine without it, and get other gear from elsewhere. But my warlock didn't seem very impressed at all!

[Raize]

You say that 'you stuck to your word'. This suggests you stated something regarding loot before the event. If this is the case and it was to allow the same people to win multiple items on one boss ( a bit unusal unless you use DKP) then i guess they just have to live with the result.

[fastidius]

You probably did the right thing if there was no pre-assigned loot rules.....

I think the general rule for a few guilds is if your not DKPing is 1 Upgrade roll, unlimited better than shard...

If two people call upgrade they can roll against each other. If no one calls upgrade anyone who can use the item for a set/offset can roll. That way you guarantee "Upgrade to main sets" get priority and loot is shared around. You won't get rid of the 2 people wanting 1 Item issues and if they earn't it questions but then thats DKP and you can't argue earnt/not earns on a non DKP system because the raid got there and therefore they earn the chance to roll.

With one winning the cloak he would have been removed from the argument at least.

It also encourages you to take Major upgrades over minor upgrades until you run out of majors.


Don't feel bad just state that the officers will look at the loot rules to try and releve the confusion and explain that as a NON DKP guild you believe in the share/use loot system and that Earning an item is the same as seeing the loot boxes.

[Creampuf]

My guild does basically: I roll per night, unless either all members of that class (tank / healer / melee dps / range dps) have won something, or there are no other rollers for an item.

If you had no stated loot rules going into the raid, then you did the right thing. But you really need to establish some loot rules going forward -- particularly if you're using non-guildies to supplement your raid.

[Domichi]

You made the right decision by giving the roll winner the item. I say this because there were no stated rolling guidelines set for rolling/winning multiple items since you were grouping as a pug. You will find that the fair and correct decision is not always going to be the most popular option.

[Leytur]

It's 10 people. Why would a group need so many rules in Karazhan? If 10 people can't get along enough to be fair about loot without rules, then they shouldn't be raiding together.

Yes you did the right thing. I means it's KARAZHAN! There is no DKP. There is no "paying dues." Unless of course you want to say something up front about it. In which case the only puggers you'll get are people with 2 complete sets and just want badges.

My guild has to occasionally PUG spots for Karazhan runs and I stick up for the puggers. Exactly the same rights as guildies.

In the course of 13 (err. . . 12) bosses I don't think it's inconceivable for someone to get 2 epic upgrades. Grats to them! I think by the third one maybe be a little more. . . "you sure no one else needs it?"

Anyways you made the right decision.

[bludwork]

you should feel bad

[Horacio]

The "its just Karahzan" argument holds no water. Different people play the game at different paces. What may be trivial content for some is important for others. At one point and time, Kara was a big deal to everyone.

That said, that's a harsh position to be in. The mage got the cloak and should have been satisfied with that and passed on the hat. That's in a perfect world dealing with completely rational and thoughtful people. It would be best to establish some ground rules on loot to begin with but realize not everything works out and you will still need to make some tough calls as a raid leader. Reserve yourself this power in what ever rules you make.

What if the mage was given the option to roll on the cloak OR the helm? And what if the lock already had the cloak? Well, roll on the helm and pick up the cloak by default, right? That kinda things happens in every loot system.

The best outcome would be for each player to get an upgrade item so I would suggest going with a "1 upgrade roll" rule.

[Kinslayer]

perhaps I was a bit ignorant not stating rules in the beginning, but me personally I haven't ran Karazhan in a while due to me being geared for higher content, so I paid it no due, which was a bad mistake to make.

It was only after the Mage won the cloak, and wanted to roll for the helm too that I thought about looting rules, most of the stuff dropped was DE'd, so it hadn't really caused me any fuss earlier.

We would use DKP, but it was something we were going to get into once we hit the 25man mark.

[Leytur]

Source: Horacio The "its just Karahzan" argument holds no water. Different people play the game at different paces. What may be trivial content for some is important for others. At one point and time, Kara was a big deal to everyone.

"It's just Karazhan" refers to the loot, not the content.